Exeter Chiefs

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Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:02 pm
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:33 pm
h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:20 pm
High handed? You're presumably referring to your own words that I used.
If you do some research you will find that the R-word is a particular bone of contention as a racial slur and its actual meaning, although for some reason apparently not offensive to all American Indians by a long way.
Hands up everybody that thinks this is a local Devon based issue. Let's see... that would be... nobody.

Oh, and there are a lot more than two opinions on this issue.
A comment I made to another poster than you felt the need to jump on, and if you read items from other posters you will see that others do feel it is a Devon based issue.
Particularly impressed with your pedantic comment at the end, obviously either a solicitor or an accountant, so just for you I’ll change a couple of opinions to quite a few opinions
So you can say it to somebody else but nobody can say it to you? I prefer contribute rather than jump on but don't worry, I'm not offended. And can you show where a poster has said it is a Devon based or Devon only issue? Pedantic? I prefer accurate but don't worry, I'm not offended.

I'm not saying Exeter have got/had got it exactly right but they have been pressurised by groups who may not have what they claim as priority as their genuine objective. If they really wanted to identify with the image in a positive way they should be investing some time and money with appropriate groups in the appropriate countries (I've said this before).
http://naguardians.org/pillars/

http://naguardians.org/pillars/
I’ve only gone back a couple of pages and found 3 posters who obviously feel, this is a local issue, but tbh that’s not important.
Just so as it’s on the record I don’t really care if I offended you or not, I’m sure you’re a big boy, a pedant, but a big boy, and are more than capable of looking after yourself.
RichieB
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by RichieB »

My last comment on this topic as I don't believe it is my role to inform, educate or correct. All I know is that if there is a group of people who, as has been suggested find such imagery offensive, then anyone with a degree of compassion would try to do something to change that. There appears to be plenty of evidence around to suggest that the Exeter Chiefs imagery has or could have a negative influence on certain groups of people and whether we agree or not is irrelevant.
h's dad
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

Dangerous4 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:43 pm The issue is total hogwash, being dredged up by politically correct ninconpoops who have nothing better to do than look for anything to try and call racist. What a sad world we live in today. They should stop being daft, and just concentrate with the rugby. :smt018 :smt018 :smt018
While I agree that this issue is being particularly highlighted by those you describe (and please be careful with the term PC as some may find it offensive), I think there are grounds to review whether minority groups are being discriminated against, and to see how their rights and heritage can be protected. Possibly it should be on Chit Chat rather than the Fans Forum.
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h's dad
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:11 pm I’ve only gone back a couple of pages and found 3 posters who obviously feel, this is a local issue, but tbh that’s not important.
Just so as it’s on the record I don’t really care if I offended you or not, I’m sure you’re a big boy, a pedant, but a big boy, and are more than capable of looking after yourself.
Could you please identify a post that says or indicates that the disrespectful use of American Indian imagery is a Devon based issue? I agree that it's not important but I am on your side and I'm desperately trying to find something you've got right. Getting shorter and wider and needing more help every year.
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Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:23 pm
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:11 pm I’ve only gone back a couple of pages and found 3 posters who obviously feel, this is a local issue, but tbh that’s not important.
Just so as it’s on the record I don’t really care if I offended you or not, I’m sure you’re a big boy, a pedant, but a big boy, and are more than capable of looking after yourself.
Could you please identify a post that says or indicates that the disrespectful use of American Indian imagery is a Devon based issue? I agree that it's not important but I am on your side and I'm desperately trying to find something you've got right. Getting shorter and wider and needing more help every year.
I’m dropping this here but I would say that Dangerous4 comment that you responded to would indicate he feels the matter is small scale and there are a few others like it.
I will openly admit that I initially felt that it was the work of the do gooder brigade but was soon educated and now realise its significance.
I agree with your point that there are a variety of opinions over this, but feel it should be an all or nothing approach from Exeter, not the half fudged response they’ve come up with.
JP14
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 »

I wonder if other teams will ban Exeter fans from wearing headresses etc in future at their away fixtures? Definitely something for the likes of EC4C to petition about...
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by KeyserSoze »

RichieB wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:13 pm My last comment on this topic as I don't believe it is my role to inform, educate or correct. All I know is that if there is a group of people who, as has been suggested find such imagery offensive, then anyone with a degree of compassion would try to do something to change that. There appears to be plenty of evidence around to suggest that the Exeter Chiefs imagery has or could have a negative influence on certain groups of people and whether we agree or not is irrelevant.
Follow that through to its logical end.

Anything found to be offensive to anybody is removed. What if I find the Union Flag offensive? What about the Black Lives Matter slogans all over the place? What about the Rainbow Flag?

Who is the arbiter of offence? You?

How many people make up a 'group'? Is 3 people sufficient have thing banned or removed?

Respectfully, the last thing you were doing there is informing, educating or correcting.
h's dad
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:58 pm
h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:23 pm
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:11 pm I’ve only gone back a couple of pages and found 3 posters who obviously feel, this is a local issue, but tbh that’s not important.
Just so as it’s on the record I don’t really care if I offended you or not, I’m sure you’re a big boy, a pedant, but a big boy, and are more than capable of looking after yourself.
Could you please identify a post that says or indicates that the disrespectful use of American Indian imagery is a Devon based issue? I agree that it's not important but I am on your side and I'm desperately trying to find something you've got right. Getting shorter and wider and needing more help every year.
I’m dropping this here but I would say that Dangerous4 comment that you responded to would indicate he feels the matter is small scale and there are a few others like it. I thought Dangerous was implying that the issue should be nothing to do with Devon - strange how we read the same comment and come to opposite conclusions.

I will openly admit that I initially felt that it was the work of the do gooder brigade but was soon educated and now realise its significance. The do gooders seem to have been infiltrated and influenced by other bodies (not my claim but that of American Indian organisations). I also have learnt a lot although we have come out with different views.

I agree with your point that there are a variety of opinions over this, but feel it should be an all or nothing approach from Exeter, not the half fudged response they’ve come up with.Well, something significant in one direction or something significant in the other (probably what you meant, I'm being pedantic (again)). Half fudged? I'd say grossly inept.
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JP14
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 »

h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:32 am
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:40 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:36 am

Whatever the reason, Exeter are entitled to use that and choose not to change.
I would suggest you do a little more research, and whilst I agree with you saying it’s their choice, look at the reason why one of America’s leading sports franchises, Washington Redskins, are making changes. It may be a minority in this country but this is a global issue.
If you think the two are comparable I would suggest that you're the one who needs to do a little more research.

There are a number of statements out there from people of American Indian heritage who have looked at the Exeter branding and logo and have said that it is respectful and they are happy with it.
Of course there will be instances where there isn’t unanimity, that’s just life in general, Courtney Lawes amongst other POC are widely against the BLM movement.

However, like my example, I firmly believe there are more indigenous Americans who find Exeter’s branding disrespectful than those who don’t.
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h's dad
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

JP14 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:36 pmOf course there will be instances where there isn’t unanimity, that’s just life in general, Courtney Lawes amongst other POC are widely against the BLM movement.

However, like my example, I firmly believe there are more indigenous Americans who find Exeter’s branding disrespectful than those who don’t.
http://naguardians.org/polling/
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ourla
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by ourla »

I understand that the use of the name "Chiefs" has some history to it - being the name given to the first team.

But when was the native Indian logo first used?
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by jgriffin »

It's not really that nice to know the political opinions of posters (I'm apparently a liberal do-gooder, who is incidently pro-police and pro-forces......)
Seriously, try to keep your politics out of it if you can. I know some consider all share their views but Tigers fans run from Communist to Hitler-lovers via David Icke type conspiracy theorists, and agreement will never occur once THAT box is opened.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by RagingBull »

ourla wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:54 pm I understand that the use of the name "Chiefs" has some history to it - being the name given to the first team.

But when was the native Indian logo first used?
1998 I believe
Grumpy of Crumbie
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie »

Love the debate, not sure I'm understanding all of it but fully respect everyones opinion. I thought I'd throw this in. I have no intention of belittling the importance of the situation and I fully expect to get pulled to pieces over this but hey all opinions welcome.

At any rugby match and cricket match come to that there is a large contingent of spectators who take to fancy dress and particularly in the six nations there is always an example of chainmail, leeks, berets, ginger wigs, daffodils, thistles, sheep, onions, cockerels, dragons, red roses, kilts, leprechauns, sporrans etc etc.

These are all things associated with a country/nationality and largely worn by the supporters of those nations. Question is if as an Englishman I turned up in a kilt where does that fit in the 'disrespectful' argument. Is the test that you can wear anything associated with a race/nation/ethnic group as long as you are from that race/nation/group otherwise its offensive? I guess I'd need to ask a Scottish person.

I completely agree about the chanting etc at Exeter but is the wearing of a Native American Headress in Exeter so much different to wearing a French Beret in London?

Just asking before all the fancy dress shops are closed down.
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JP14
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 »

Grumpy of Crumbie wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:32 pm Love the debate, not sure I'm understanding all of it but fully respect everyones opinion. I thought I'd throw this in. I have no intention of belittling the importance of the situation and I fully expect to get pulled to pieces over this but hey all opinions welcome.

At any rugby match and cricket match come to that there is a large contingent of spectators who take to fancy dress and particularly in the six nations there is always an example of chainmail, leeks, berets, ginger wigs, daffodils, thistles, sheep, onions, cockerels, dragons, red roses, kilts, leprechauns, sporrans etc etc.

These are all things associated with a country/nationality and largely worn by the supporters of those nations. Question is if as an Englishman I turned up in a kilt where does that fit in the 'disrespectful' argument. Is the test that you can wear anything associated with a race/nation/ethnic group as long as you are from that race/nation/group otherwise its offensive? I guess I'd need to ask a Scottish person.

I completely agree about the chanting etc at Exeter but is the wearing of a Native American Headress in Exeter so much different to wearing a French Beret in London?

Just asking before all the fancy dress shops are closed down.
From my point of view, there has to be a balance, I’m pretty sure French supporters wouldn’t like it if I went to the Stade de France with a beret and go “oui, oui I love white flags”, but I wouldn’t deem that offensive, just annoying. I guess the First Nation peoples would be less angry if the branding was accurate to their cultures & Exeter had a genuine link to the branding.

I know you’re last comment was in-jest, but there will always be people who want to dress up like Superheroes or Captain Jack Sparrow so I’m sure they have nothing to worry about.
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