Exeter Chiefs

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JP14
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 »

TigerBoy1880 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:36 am
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:35 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:21 am The way I see it is Exeter can do as they please. If they want to use the name Chiefs and people choose to be offended by it then that’s up to Exeter to continue to do so and up to those people being offended to carry on being so.

If by Exeter choosing to continue with the name Chiefs means those people offended will keep banging on about it then so be it and if it means Exeter will be seen in a bad light by a minority, then so be it.



Some people don’t like Leicester Tigers and whatever we do, people will still feel that way.
I think you may have missed the point, it isn’t the name chiefs that’s the main issue, it’s the using of Native Indian symbology, in their emblem, getting rid of their mascot isn’t going to change that.

If I was a cynic, I would say the cost of having to rebadge, all their playing, training and leisure gear, is the main driver behind this decision
Whatever the reason, Exeter are entitled to use that and choose not to change.
They’re not entitled by anything, they have no genuine link to Native Americans whatsoever and are abusing Hollywood stereotypes for financial gain.

It’ll be interesting to see if pressure will now be exerted onto the RFU or Prem Rugby following Exeter’s decision.
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JP14
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 »

TigerBoy1880 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:30 am
JP14 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 am They’re being seen in a bad light by more than just a “minority”.
Really? I’d say it’s a minority.
Explain how you think it is a minority...
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by VernonAtrium »

OT, but I always considered 'Bath' an outdated team name. Most people use showers, nowadays. Or a 'wet room.'
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

JP14 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:30 am
JP14 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 am They’re being seen in a bad light by more than just a “minority”.
Really? I’d say it’s a minority.
Explain how you think it is a minority...
I understand there are two petitions, essentially one for getting rid of American Indian representations and one for no change. I understand that there are more signatures on the petition for no change. How many signatures from American Indians are on either petition I don't know.

My feeling is, if you want to wear a war bonnet, don't get a knock off but buy one from an American Indian who makes a living making and selling them and help to preserve their culture.
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RichieB
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by RichieB »

Credit for these words to Annie Banaynay who has done a whole body of work on this:

“Caricatures used by sports teams with “Indian” mascots contribute to the “savage” image of Native peoples and the myth that Native peoples are an ethnic group ‘frozen in history’.”

I think Exeter need to take a reality check and see what changes are going on in the world around this matter. There are many examples where sports teams/pop groups have taken action to avoid perpetuating any continuation of such possible 'misrepresentations'.

Come on Exeter - time to do the right thing.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:40 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:36 am
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:35 am

I think you may have missed the point, it isn’t the name chiefs that’s the main issue, it’s the using of Native Indian symbology, in their emblem, getting rid of their mascot isn’t going to change that.

If I was a cynic, I would say the cost of having to rebadge, all their playing, training and leisure gear, is the main driver behind this decision
Whatever the reason, Exeter are entitled to use that and choose not to change.
I would suggest you do a little more research, and whilst I agree with you saying it’s their choice, look at the reason why one of America’s leading sports franchises, Washington Redskins, are making changes. It may be a minority in this country but this is a global issue.
If you think the two are comparable I would suggest that you're the one who needs to do a little more research.

There are a number of statements out there from people of American Indian heritage who have looked at the Exeter branding and logo and have said that it is respectful and they are happy with it.
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Scott1
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Scott1 »

When does this stop? I'm just waiting for book,films and songs to start being retitled now. (Rolls eyes)
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by BFG »

So Big Chief is to retire.
Dressing up in feathers and dancing about with an inflatable tomahawk whilst making whooping noises on a regular basis for the rugger is just odd.
With their right to do so defended they can drive the 1400 horses back to the four bedroom tepees and sit around the fire pits on Stoke Hill munching on buffalo wings and drinking bottles of JD in peace.
Once is more than enough for a fancy dress party (tonight Matthew I'm going to be Geronimo) if you don't fancy painting yourself blue and becoming a Smurf for an evening.
To do it every week for the rugger is a bit strange in my opinion.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:32 am
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:40 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:36 am

Whatever the reason, Exeter are entitled to use that and choose not to change.
I would suggest you do a little more research, and whilst I agree with you saying it’s their choice, look at the reason why one of America’s leading sports franchises, Washington Redskins, are making changes. It may be a minority in this country but this is a global issue.
If you think the two are comparable I would suggest that you're the one who needs to do a little more research.

There are a number of statements out there from people of American Indian heritage who have looked at the Exeter branding and logo and have said that it is respectful and they are happy with it.
There are always 2 opinions, and I have so please don’t take a high tone with me.
Yet again I cite the actions of the Washington Redskins, for those that think this is a local Devon based issue.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

RichieB wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:25 am Credit for these words to Annie Banaynay who has done a whole body of work on this:

“Caricatures used by sports teams with “Indian” mascots contribute to the “savage” image of Native peoples and the myth that Native peoples are an ethnic group ‘frozen in history’.”

I think Exeter need to take a reality check and see what changes are going on in the world around this matter. There are many examples where sports teams/pop groups have taken action to avoid perpetuating any continuation of such possible 'misrepresentations'.

Come on Exeter - time to do the right thing.
As far as I can make out Annie was simply quoting other work on twitter rather than doing a whole body herself. A link to explain what I'm missing would be appreciated.

One the other hand: "The Native American Guardians Association is an alliance of natives and non-natives whose goal is “to preserve positive honorable symbols and imagery, as well as tributes to Native American culture in the American mainstream.” The group has argued that a proposed bill banning the use of Native American mascots from Massachusetts public schools discriminates against Native Americans because it prevents only them from being represented. The group says that mascots should be used to educate people about Native American history."
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h's dad
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:47 am
h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:32 am
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:40 am

I would suggest you do a little more research, and whilst I agree with you saying it’s their choice, look at the reason why one of America’s leading sports franchises, Washington Redskins, are making changes. It may be a minority in this country but this is a global issue.
If you think the two are comparable I would suggest that you're the one who needs to do a little more research.

There are a number of statements out there from people of American Indian heritage who have looked at the Exeter branding and logo and have said that it is respectful and they are happy with it.
There are always 2 opinions, and I have so please don’t take a high tone with me.
Yet again I cite the actions of the Washington Redskins, for those that think this is a local Devon based issue.
High handed? You're presumably referring to your own words that I used.
If you do some research you will find that the R-word is a particular bone of contention as a racial slur and its actual meaning, although for some reason apparently not offensive to all American Indians by a long way.
Hands up everybody that thinks this is a local Devon based issue. Let's see... that would be... nobody.

Oh, and there are a lot more than two opinions on this issue.
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Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:13 pm
RichieB wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:25 am Credit for these words to Annie Banaynay who has done a whole body of work on this:

“Caricatures used by sports teams with “Indian” mascots contribute to the “savage” image of Native peoples and the myth that Native peoples are an ethnic group ‘frozen in history’.”

I think Exeter need to take a reality check and see what changes are going on in the world around this matter. There are many examples where sports teams/pop groups have taken action to avoid perpetuating any continuation of such possible 'misrepresentations'.

Come on Exeter - time to do the right thing.
As far as I can make out Annie was simply quoting other work on twitter rather than doing a whole body herself. A link to explain what I'm missing would be appreciated.

One the other hand: "The Native American Guardians Association is an alliance of natives and non-natives whose goal is “to preserve positive honorable symbols and imagery, as well as tributes to Native American culture in the American mainstream.” The group has argued that a proposed bill banning the use of Native American mascots from Massachusetts public schools discriminates against Native Americans because it prevents only them from being represented. The group says that mascots should be used to educate people about Native American history."
And a man dressed up in a costume prancing about before a rugby match, in front of fans similarly dressed chanting tribally thousands of miles from Massachusetts is doing that ?
I’m all for people of different creeds and religions learning about each other’s history, it’s similar to some of Leicester’s do gooders not wanting Christmas celebrated in local schools for fear of offending family’s of other religions. It’s not until Sikh, Muslim and Hindu families say no we want our children to learn about other religions that these things stop.
As far as I’m aware this has only recently become an issue. IMHO Exeter had 2 choices, do nothing, or remove the branding totally, no issue with the Chiefs name, Canterbury are still called the Crusaders, but to go about it half arsed, and say we’ll retire our mascot is wrong, again in my opinion.
Again if I was a cynic, and having seen all the stash delivered to Tigers from Samurai, who also kit out Exeter, I would say financially it is too late for them to remove it now, and this will be revisited end of 20/21 season
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:20 pm
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:47 am
h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:32 am
If you think the two are comparable I would suggest that you're the one who needs to do a little more research.

There are a number of statements out there from people of American Indian heritage who have looked at the Exeter branding and logo and have said that it is respectful and they are happy with it.
There are always 2 opinions, and I have so please don’t take a high tone with me.
Yet again I cite the actions of the Washington Redskins, for those that think this is a local Devon based issue.
High handed? You're presumably referring to your own words that I used.
If you do some research you will find that the R-word is a particular bone of contention as a racial slur and its actual meaning, although for some reason apparently not offensive to all American Indians by a long way.
Hands up everybody that thinks this is a local Devon based issue. Let's see... that would be... nobody.

Oh, and there are a lot more than two opinions on this issue.
A comment I made to another poster than you felt the need to jump on, and if you read items from other posters you will see that others do feel it is a Devon based issue.
Particularly impressed with your pedantic comment at the end, obviously either a solicitor or an accountant, so just for you I’ll change a couple of opinions to quite a few opinions
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Dangerous4 »

The issue is total hogwash, being dredged up by politically correct ninconpoops who have nothing better to do than look for anything to try and call racist. What a sad world we live in today. They should stop being daft, and just concentrate with the rugby. :smt018 :smt018 :smt018
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:33 pm
h's dad wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:20 pm
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:47 am

There are always 2 opinions, and I have so please don’t take a high tone with me.
Yet again I cite the actions of the Washington Redskins, for those that think this is a local Devon based issue.
High handed? You're presumably referring to your own words that I used.
If you do some research you will find that the R-word is a particular bone of contention as a racial slur and its actual meaning, although for some reason apparently not offensive to all American Indians by a long way.
Hands up everybody that thinks this is a local Devon based issue. Let's see... that would be... nobody.

Oh, and there are a lot more than two opinions on this issue.
A comment I made to another poster than you felt the need to jump on, and if you read items from other posters you will see that others do feel it is a Devon based issue.
Particularly impressed with your pedantic comment at the end, obviously either a solicitor or an accountant, so just for you I’ll change a couple of opinions to quite a few opinions
So you can say it to somebody else but nobody can say it to you? I prefer contribute rather than jump on but don't worry, I'm not offended. And can you show where a poster has said it is a Devon based or Devon only issue? Pedantic? I prefer accurate but don't worry, I'm not offended.

I'm not saying Exeter have got/had got it exactly right but they have been pressurised by groups who may not have what they claim as priority as their genuine objective. If they really wanted to identify with the image in a positive way they should be investing some time and money with appropriate groups in the appropriate countries (I've said this before).
http://naguardians.org/pillars/

http://naguardians.org/pillars/
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