Steve Borthwick

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TigerBoy1880
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by TigerBoy1880 »

BigDan50 wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:57 am Ellis is hardly going to say anything else about an England coach if he wants to keep his place in the squad, I’m sure a lot of Tigers players will say the the same when he starts his coaching duties with us as they will want to keep him onside.
Let’s wait and see if there is any improvement in our results with Borthwicks training, hopefully the only way is up after the last couple of years of Murphys tenure.
He doesn’t need to say he’s the best coach he’s ever been coached by though. If he was being diplomatic, he’d just say he’s a very good coach.
JP14
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by JP14 »

Our Gengey - diplomatic?
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
strawclearer
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by strawclearer »

BigDan50 wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:57 am Ellis is hardly going to say anything else about an England coach if he wants to keep his place in the squad, I’m sure a lot of Tigers players will say the the same when he starts his coaching duties with us as they will want to keep him onside.
Let’s wait and see if there is any improvement in our results with Borthwicks training, hopefully the only way is up after the last couple of years of Murphys tenure.
It was a private conversation and I'm neither a journalist nor someone with 'influence' - and Ellis tends to say what he means and means what he says! I think we can take it at face value!
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
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teds
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by teds »

BigDan50 wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:57 amLet’s wait and see if there is any improvement in our results with Borthwicks training, hopefully the only way is up after the last couple of years of Murphys tenure.
Just to be fair, is it accurate to say Murphy’s tenure is two years? He was promoted up at short notice to start as head coach In Sept 2018, when MOC ran away, and then has a season fire-fighting before a pre-season with the core of his first choice team missing at the 2019 World Cup, and just half a season of games before Covid struck. At best it’s a disrupted season and a half.
Cagey Tiger
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by Cagey Tiger »

teds wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:44 pm
BigDan50 wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:57 amLet’s wait and see if there is any improvement in our results with Borthwicks training, hopefully the only way is up after the last couple of years of Murphys tenure.
Just to be fair, is it accurate to say Murphy’s tenure is two years? He was promoted up at short notice to start as head coach In Sept 2018, when MOC ran away, and then has a season fire-fighting before a pre-season with the core of his first choice team missing at the 2019 World Cup, and just half a season of games before Covid struck. At best it’s a disrupted season and a half.
+1
Tiglon
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by Tiglon »

1 year 9 months 28 days, to be completely accurate.
Cagey Tiger
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by Cagey Tiger »

Tiglon wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:19 pm 1 year 9 months 28 days, to be completely accurate.
Is that to today, or to the point where the game was shut down, effectively putting everything on hold?
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by Tiglon »

Until end of June - which I believe is when he is Head Coach until.

It's completely reasonable to argue that the last few months of that don't really count for obvious reasons, but I'm not convinced it matters whether it's been a bad 1 year 9 months or a bad 1 year 6 months. The future looks brighter and I am optimistic Murphy will be a very good DoR.
kk20gb30
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by kk20gb30 »

Believe the mood of and around The Club has been lifted.Ironic if this period should see the beginning of the renascence for which everyone associated with Leicester Tigers has been searching but strength can come from adversity.Momentum and confidence are key ingredients to success and if you look at what we have on paper (a shame the sport is not played there) we should fear no other club or team.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
kk20gb30
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by kk20gb30 »

...but hopefully not for a long time yet , and only after restoring our fortunes :
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/eddie-jo ... borthwick/
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
newport tiger
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by newport tiger »

ourla wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:45 pm
Mark62 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:39 am
newport tiger wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 pm I think the mood has lifted and there is even a bit of optimism in some quarters regarding the coaching set up. I remember when Mark Bakewell was appointed as the forwards coach a certain Steve Borthwick was quoted as saying "He is the best forwards coach i have ever worked with". Given that, its probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques so are we going to see any big changes? Its probably more down to the players ability than the coach so i guess its a case of watch this space.
Interesting that with all the positive comments re Borthwick and the fact that he is a genuine world class coach, some still see the need to find a negative. I know this is driven by the state the team is in prior to his arrival, but I do find it a little disappointing
I read it differently. Didn't see at as particularly negative.

I think if Borthwick had been brought in as a forwards coach at the same time as Bakewell was and worked under the same regime with the same players I am not sure the result would have been much different. A lot of things are different now and of course Borthwick is coming in as a Head Coach and is much younger. So I don't think it makes sense to compare or think in this way.
Thank you Ourla, i certainly didn't mean it to be negative i was merely asking the question out of interest. It goes without saying that i wish Steve all the best otherwise i wouldn't be wasting my time on this forum. Perhaps i should have asked the question "Was Mark Bakewell a bad coach or were his players not up to the job?"
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by newport tiger »

sk 88 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:04 pm
newport tiger wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 pm I think the mood has lifted and there is even a bit of optimism in some quarters regarding the coaching set up. I remember when Mark Bakewell was appointed as the forwards coach a certain Steve Borthwick was quoted as saying "He is the best forwards coach i have ever worked with". Given that, its probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques so are we going to see any big changes? Its probably more down to the players ability than the coach so i guess its a case of watch this space.
A bit of research suggests that quote was from when Bakewell left Bath in 2009. Therefore I don't agree that it is "probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques".
So when Bakewell signs everybody uses this quote to suggest how good he is and now all of a sudden we have to distance ourselves from it. The truth is probably somewhere in between Bakewell is a decent coach but the personnel we had didn't have the heart for the fight. With all professional sport these days coaches/managers take the fall whilst players remain unaccountable!
teds
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by teds »

newport tiger wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:39 am
sk 88 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:04 pm
newport tiger wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 pm I think the mood has lifted and there is even a bit of optimism in some quarters regarding the coaching set up. I remember when Mark Bakewell was appointed as the forwards coach a certain Steve Borthwick was quoted as saying "He is the best forwards coach i have ever worked with". Given that, its probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques so are we going to see any big changes? Its probably more down to the players ability than the coach so i guess its a case of watch this space.
A bit of research suggests that quote was from when Bakewell left Bath in 2009. Therefore I don't agree that it is "probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques".
So when Bakewell signs everybody uses this quote to suggest how good he is and now all of a sudden we have to distance ourselves from it. The truth is probably somewhere in between Bakewell is a decent coach but the personnel we had didn't have the heart for the fight. With all professional sport these days coaches/managers take the fall whilst players remain unaccountable!
While the truth is nearly always somewhere between the extremes, it seems fairly clear the players don’t remain unaccountable. If anything, I think Murphy has reminded everyone that no-one is bigger than the club. Senior players were amongst the first to take a pay cut or leave.

I am cautiously optimistic if the 19-20 season renews we won’t end up in 11th, and the following season 20-21 we should end up least mid-table - above Quins, Irish, Wasps and Worcester.
mol2
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by mol2 »

There would have been little ppoint (or likelihood) of Borthwick having come in as forwards coach.

His next step from England was always going to be as head coach and in reality he has more top level coaching experience than the DOR.
wellstiger
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by wellstiger »

If and only If SB does a remarkable job over the next two seasons, does he jump into EJ shoes in 2023?
Then Tigers are back to the drawing board.
How long has SB signed up for?

I know sport is fickle and only a few are in it for the long (ish) haul and that any one involved as in all walks of life move on.
But I thought Tigers had a mid to long term plan to get us back to the top ? So how does that work?

Seems to be even more questions than answers- don't you think?
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