I think the difference with May is that he is a starter on merit whereas with others the consistency of their performances perhaps didn't match their expectations.h's dad wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 1:14 pmYou're backing bigdan who has accused Johnny May of showing no loyaltyay2oh wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:49 pmSorry agree with bigdan50 here. Ben and Tom Young’s chose to take a big pay cut and May did not. In my opinion you will always get more loyalty from players that come through your academy. May decided to take the money and that is his prerogativeh's dad wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:35 pm
What would you do if your employer demanded you take a huge pay cut when other employers were queueing up to offer a much better package? I don't know if you have a partner or dependents but Johnny does. What do you thing they're saying?
Johnny May has always given his all on the pitch (IMO) which is more than I think can be said of some.
In any professional field there is loyalty and there is stupidity. The line isn't that blurred.
You're probably generally right about the loyalty of academy players. I know a guy who was really upset when he was effectively pushed out although he doubled his money with his move.
If Johnny had come through the academy and had a brother in the team he might have stayed. Who knows?
Players asked to take pay cuts!
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
a radical suggestion - established international players should have their club salary reduced by the amount they could earn from international appearances, thus making player salaries relative to their availability
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Not radical at all. I would be amazed if it wasn't taken into account when contracts are drawn up. It doesn't have to be explicit. Unless I'm being radical when I pay my part-timers less than I pay my full-timers?GETHIN EXILE wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 pm a radical suggestion - established international players should have their club salary reduced by the amount they could earn from international appearances, thus making player salaries relative to their availability
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Only issue is someone like Dan Cole who when he signed his contract he was on England money and now won’t beGETHIN EXILE wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 pm a radical suggestion - established international players should have their club salary reduced by the amount they could earn from international appearances, thus making player salaries relative to their availability
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Another possible suggestion - the payments to international players should be made to the club rather than the player thus compensating the club for supplying the player ie if you wish to use my players you have to rent them from me.
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Common sense realisation needs to be made that the landscape has changed.
I don't think it would be incorrect to say that for many (ordinary ??) people furlough could effectively become redundancy.
I don't think it would be incorrect to say that for many (ordinary ??) people furlough could effectively become redundancy.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Agreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".
There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
I don't know how correct this is but a Nick Cain article back in January indicates that the RFU gives the PRL £180k for each England player of which £80k goes to the club. I'm suspicious that the detail in the article might not be right as there seems to be no differentiation between one-offs and regulars but I expect the gist is in the right ball park.GETHIN EXILE wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 10:37 pm Another possible suggestion - the payments to international players should be made to the club rather than the player thus compensating the club for supplying the player ie if you wish to use my players you have to rent them from me.
Take the payments off the players and you'll have Martin Johnson outside your door with a placard and a brazier.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Wow. I thought I was cynical. Wouldn't loyalty be some sort of function based on integrity and the honouring of a perceived debt or obligation without compulsion?Tiglon wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 amAgreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".
There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Are you saying the definition of loyalty is a person who repays their mortgage?h's dad wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 2:01 pmWow. I thought I was cynical. Wouldn't loyalty be some sort of function based on integrity and the honouring of a perceived debt or obligation without compulsion?Tiglon wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 amAgreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".
There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
IMO Loyalty these days is very much an outdated concept., certainly in terms of suppliers and consumers.
The days of sticking with your energy supplier, mortgage lender, insurance company etc are long gone, we all look for the best deal available. Same with supermarkets, especially since their loyalty schemes were proven to be little more than data mining schemes.
I think there is a similar attitude to sports teams. I stopped playing in 1989 through injury, but had I continued I would have stayed at the same club, Stoneygate until I stopped playing. In those days, outside of football, it was unheard of for players to change clubs, unless there were geographic reasons.
Now at all levels players move around clubs, Mays reason was financially motivated, I have no doubt he is 100% committed to whichever club is paying him, but when his contract is up at Gloucester he will look for the best deal.
That’s modern life I’m afraid and loyalty these days usually starts with a £
The days of sticking with your energy supplier, mortgage lender, insurance company etc are long gone, we all look for the best deal available. Same with supermarkets, especially since their loyalty schemes were proven to be little more than data mining schemes.
I think there is a similar attitude to sports teams. I stopped playing in 1989 through injury, but had I continued I would have stayed at the same club, Stoneygate until I stopped playing. In those days, outside of football, it was unheard of for players to change clubs, unless there were geographic reasons.
Now at all levels players move around clubs, Mays reason was financially motivated, I have no doubt he is 100% committed to whichever club is paying him, but when his contract is up at Gloucester he will look for the best deal.
That’s modern life I’m afraid and loyalty these days usually starts with a £
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
I'm fairly sure that if I tried to avoid repaying my mortgage there would be an element of compulsion. If your provider doesn't do this, please let me have their details.Tiglon wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 2:33 pmAre you saying the definition of loyalty is a person who repays their mortgage?h's dad wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 2:01 pmWow. I thought I was cynical. Wouldn't loyalty be some sort of function based on integrity and the honouring of a perceived debt or obligation without compulsion?Tiglon wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 am
Agreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".
There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
No one forces me to make my mortgage payments.h's dad wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 4:27 pmI'm fairly sure that if I tried to avoid repaying my mortgage there would be an element of compulsion. If your provider doesn't do this, please let me have their details.
Anyway, apologies for taking it slightly off topic. Rugby club loyalty: I don't think there is less loyalty now than there was in the 80's, there was just less reason to change clubs then. Back then, if you lived near Leicester and played for Tigers, why stay at Tigers instead of moving to Gloucester? Was it loyalty, or just that there was really nothing to gain from moving to Gloucester?
There certainly wasn't a lack of financial greed in the 80's, there just wasn't any money in rugby. Don't forget, the 80's was the decade that practically invented greed, whereas the current decade is all about environmentalism and clapping for the NHS.
Perhaps loyalty exists until that lovely feeling of being loyal is outweighed by the benefits of going somewhere else. I.e. Loyalty is a thing until someone meets your price.
If someone offered me £50k to support Gloucester, I'd bite their hand off.
Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
To say there was no money in rugby in the 80s is incorrect. There may have been no visible money, and there were certainly incentives for top players to move clubs provided by friendly local employersTiglon wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pmNo one forces me to make my mortgage payments.
Anyway, apologies for taking it slightly off topic. Rugby club loyalty: I don't think there is less loyalty now than there was in the 80's, there was just less reason to change clubs then. Back then, if you lived near Leicester and played for Tigers, why stay at Tigers instead of moving to Gloucester? Was it loyalty, or just that there was really nothing to gain from moving to Gloucester?
There certainly wasn't a lack of financial greed in the 80's, there just wasn't any money in rugby. Don't forget, the 80's was the decade that practically invented greed, whereas the current decade is all about environmentalism and clapping for the NHS.
Perhaps loyalty exists until that lovely feeling of being loyal is outweighed by the benefits of going somewhere else. I.e. Loyalty is a thing until someone meets your price.
If someone offered me £50k to support Gloucester, I'd bite their hand off.
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!
Some rather famous names amongst them!Mark62 wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 6:30 pmTo say there was no money in rugby in the 80s is incorrect. There may have been no visible money, and there were certainly incentives for top players to move clubs provided by friendly local employersTiglon wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pmNo one forces me to make my mortgage payments.
Anyway, apologies for taking it slightly off topic. Rugby club loyalty: I don't think there is less loyalty now than there was in the 80's, there was just less reason to change clubs then. Back then, if you lived near Leicester and played for Tigers, why stay at Tigers instead of moving to Gloucester? Was it loyalty, or just that there was really nothing to gain from moving to Gloucester?
There certainly wasn't a lack of financial greed in the 80's, there just wasn't any money in rugby. Don't forget, the 80's was the decade that practically invented greed, whereas the current decade is all about environmentalism and clapping for the NHS.
Perhaps loyalty exists until that lovely feeling of being loyal is outweighed by the benefits of going somewhere else. I.e. Loyalty is a thing until someone meets your price.
If someone offered me £50k to support Gloucester, I'd bite their hand off.