Players asked to take pay cuts!

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johnthegriff
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by johnthegriff » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:53 am

The salary cap works out at about 7.5 K Premiership teams need 40 + players not even Saracens will be paying all of them 400K a year, most players will be on less than 100 K still a good wage for a young guy but not a lot when trying to provide for a future in the real world, a 25% cut will hit those men and their families hard. The way a team looks after its players now may have a big affect on recruitment and retention in the future.
Supermarkets may be doing ok now as panic buying clears their shelves, but when things return to normal Aldi, Tesco etc will be sitting with stocks as so many people gradually empty their garage of a years supply of toilet rolls.

BFG
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:10 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:53 am
The salary cap works out at about 7.5 K Premiership teams need 40 + players not even Saracens will be paying all of them 400K a year, most players will be on less than 100 K still a good wage for a young guy but not a lot when trying to provide for a future in the real world, a 25% cut will hit those men and their families hard. The way a team looks after its players now may have a big affect on recruitment and retention in the future.
Supermarkets may be doing ok now as panic buying clears their shelves, but when things return to normal Aldi, Tesco etc will be sitting with stocks as so many people gradually empty their garage of a years supply of toilet rolls.

Supply levels are as you were but the direction of supplies has changed, other employers are doing no business, so stock from areas of normal usage are transferred to other areas of need which in this case is added home usage bought from supermarkets.
That stock is being used up as people are stuck at home.
I don't know if you have noticed but the future of the real world has changed dramatically!

Crumblies
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Crumblies » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:55 pm

h's dad wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:46 am
Crumblies wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:18 pm
h's dad wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:06 pm

Can you give a link to somebody recently advising us all not to take out a mortgage that they would struggle to cover in the event of a substantial pay cut due to a global pandemic?

If we all tried to contingency plan for every possible disaster the world would grind to a halt.
Oh and are you seriously suggesting that the world will grind to a halt by educating people on the absolute necessity to adhere to hand hygiene?
Dont' be silly. There is a difference between washing your hands regularly and deciding how much of a mortgage you can comfortably take on while making any contingency that the reasonable person might take. The stupid mortgage to take on is one on a property on a flood plain that is regularly engulfed and that building on will only exacerbate.
You: ‘Anyone with half a brain predicted a global pandemic’

Me: ‘I’m afraid they did and have been doing so for quite sometime.’

You: ‘If we tried to contingency plan for every possible disaster the world would grind to a halt.’

Me: ‘The Scientific Community and World Health Organisation have been warning governments and trying to educate the public for years of the likelihood of another pandemic it’s ramifications and the need to avoid it.

At no time in my posts have referred to any individual and their finances or their risks.

However the simple fact is ‘The World has Ground to a halt’ and we are in a Global Catastrophe which all nations and all people could have taken steps to avoid or mitigate against, some very simple like hand hygiene. Now everyone and I mean everyone has to face the consequences of that.

Please don’t call me silly on a public forum when I offer a perfectly reasoned, sensible point of view.

kk20gb30
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by kk20gb30 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:52 pm

Daily Express reports today that Leicester have asked top earners such as George Ford and Manu to take a 25% reduction in pay during the imposed shutdown; alludes also however, to this being across the board and club wide with coaching staff and senior executives (Simon Cohen) also being affected.
BBC Sport also:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51988774

sk 88
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by sk 88 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:04 pm

BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:05 am
My understanding is that everyone can apply for a three month mortgage holiday, legislation is being rushed through so renters canno't be evicted, and the government will cover 80% of employees salaries up to £2500 a month.
It's up to companies how much else they pay during this difficult time which I imagine will depend on their financial health and generosity.
Personally I don't believe that any person or company should profit in difficult times for all.
Supermarkets seem to be doing pretty well so perhaps they could share the wealth instead of profiteering, but no they are more likely to want other businesses to fold so they can buy up the land and build more supermarkets and make more profits.
It's a rat race and players will just have to suck it up like the rest of us!
Not quite correct based on what little has been published so far.

What it says on the government website (or did this morning) is that it is only for workers formally marked as furloughed, so it appears anyone that is still working is not included and anyone, such as Tigers staff, who have had to have hours reduced are not included either. Tigers mention of hours also being reduced suggests to me this is across the board and includes even the lowest paid staff.

I note it did not mention the 3 executive directors and whether they are subject to this pay cut.
Goooooodeeeeeyyyyy!

sk 88
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by sk 88 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:16 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:53 am
The salary cap works out at about 7.5 K Premiership teams need 40 + players not even Saracens will be paying all of them 400K a year, most players will be on less than 100 K still a good wage for a young guy but not a lot when trying to provide for a future in the real world, a 25% cut will hit those men and their families hard. The way a team looks after its players now may have a big affect on recruitment and retention in the future.
Supermarkets may be doing ok now as panic buying clears their shelves, but when things return to normal Aldi, Tesco etc will be sitting with stocks as so many people gradually empty their garage of a years supply of toilet rolls.
100% agree John.

Tigers use on average 54 players a season or there about. The exact wage bill of the players is hard to discern because of all various allowances and discounted players (anyone on under £30k a year and below 24).

If the club was struggling to make its wage bill I have five questions:
1) the audited accounts show cash reserves of £8m in July. Where has this gone?
2) Why will Tom Scott not cover the wage bill, to be repaid when the games are on? He recently trumpeted his values above potential bidders ...
3) Why has there been no effort to raise the money from us, the fans?
4) What efforts have gone into accessing the government's business interruption loans?
5) What is our quarterly VAT bill and why, in light of Friday's announcement, can this not be used to cover the wage bill? A rough estimate here is that we sell £5m of tickets, this equates to £800k of VAT, or £200k now not due next week. Our wage bill is c.£1m per month so 25% of that is £250k. This also applies to our rates which are now not going to be paid for the next year.
Goooooodeeeeeyyyyy!

BFG
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:28 pm

sk 88 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:04 pm
BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:05 am
My understanding is that everyone can apply for a three month mortgage holiday, legislation is being rushed through so renters canno't be evicted, and the government will cover 80% of employees salaries up to £2500 a month.
It's up to companies how much else they pay during this difficult time which I imagine will depend on their financial health and generosity.
Personally I don't believe that any person or company should profit in difficult times for all.
Supermarkets seem to be doing pretty well so perhaps they could share the wealth instead of profiteering, but no they are more likely to want other businesses to fold so they can buy up the land and build more supermarkets and make more profits.
It's a rat race and players will just have to suck it up like the rest of us!
Not quite correct based on what little has been published so far.

What it says on the government website (or did this morning) is that it is only for workers formally marked as furloughed
, so it appears anyone that is still working is not included and anyone, such as Tigers staff, who have had to have hours reduced are not included either. Tigers mention of hours also being reduced suggests to me this is across the board and includes even the lowest paid staff.

I note it did not mention the 3 executive directors and whether they are subject to this pay cut.
Yes perhaps I should've stated the obvious.

loretta
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by loretta » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:39 pm

sk 88 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:16 pm
johnthegriff wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:53 am
The salary cap works out at about 7.5 K Premiership teams need 40 + players not even Saracens will be paying all of them 400K a year, most players will be on less than 100 K still a good wage for a young guy but not a lot when trying to provide for a future in the real world, a 25% cut will hit those men and their families hard. The way a team looks after its players now may have a big affect on recruitment and retention in the future.
Supermarkets may be doing ok now as panic buying clears their shelves, but when things return to normal Aldi, Tesco etc will be sitting with stocks as so many people gradually empty their garage of a years supply of toilet rolls.
100% agree John.

Tigers use on average 54 players a season or there about. The exact wage bill of the players is hard to discern because of all various allowances and discounted players (anyone on under £30k a year and below 24).

If the club was struggling to make its wage bill I have five questions:
1) the audited accounts show cash reserves of £8m in July. Where has this gone?
2) Why will Tom Scott not cover the wage bill, to be repaid when the games are on? He recently trumpeted his values above potential bidders ...
3) Why has there been no effort to raise the money from us, the fans?
4) What efforts have gone into accessing the government's business interruption loans?
5) What is our quarterly VAT bill and why, in light of Friday's announcement, can this not be used to cover the wage bill? A rough estimate here is that we sell £5m of tickets, this equates to £800k of VAT, or £200k now not due next week. Our wage bill is c.£1m per month so 25% of that is £250k. This also applies to our rates which are now not going to be paid for the next year.
Crowd funding. A proven track record, and I'd certainly be happy to chip in.
I find your lack of faith......disturbing.

h's dad
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by h's dad » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:40 am

Crumblies wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:55 pm
h's dad wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:46 am
Crumblies wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:18 pm


Oh and are you seriously suggesting that the world will grind to a halt by educating people on the absolute necessity to adhere to hand hygiene?
Dont' be silly. There is a difference between washing your hands regularly and deciding how much of a mortgage you can comfortably take on while making any contingency that the reasonable person might take. The stupid mortgage to take on is one on a property on a flood plain that is regularly engulfed and that building on will only exacerbate.
You: ‘Anyone with half a brain predicted a global pandemic’

Me: ‘I’m afraid they did and have been doing so for quite sometime.’

I note you took out the 'this year' specificity - a key part of the point being made.

You: ‘If we tried to contingency plan for every possible disaster the world would grind to a halt.’

Me: ‘The Scientific Community and World Health Organisation have been warning governments and trying to educate the public for ye
ars of the likelihood of another pandemic it’s ramifications and the need to avoid it.

At no time in my posts have referred to any individual and their finances or their risks.

Mortgages were being discussed and you elected to link this to hand washing, a little tenuous but who am I to complain when someone shifts the topic a little.

However the simple fact is ‘The World has Ground to a halt’ and we are in a Global Catastrophe which all nations and all people could have taken steps to avoid or mitigate against, some very simple like hand hygiene. Now everyone and I mean everyone has to face the consequences of that.

Please don’t call me silly on a public forum when I offer a perfectly reasoned, sensible point of view.
All right, the imminent arrival of a pandemic has been predicted year after year for decades. Mostly it hasn't turned up when advertised but even a doom monger is right now and again.. If we all prepared for it permanently by stockpiling as much as we could in the smallest house we could buy as has been intimated, the economies of the world suffer for a massively extended period of time, and also we don't all want to do that. That doesn't mean governments shouldn't contingency plan but we don't have to spend our lives in bunkers 'just in case'. Although there is nothing to prevent those who want to live like that from doing so.

I think I originally posted with regard to player mortgages (which you have linked to hand washing!). People with shorter higher earning careers probably have a very different mortgage arrangement to most of us with much higher monthly payments for a shorter period of time. A few months out of that payment schedule for a payment holiday would mess them up far more than it would the rest of us.

Just trying to speak up for players who some seem to think have a cushy life on an exorbitant and unjustified salary.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

Fish
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Fish » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:00 am

If players are asked to take pay I don’t think it’s unreasonable. Many people are in far worse positions either having to work and risk it or as myself have zero income being self employed.
If rugby goes completely south perhaps they wont have any salary. World has changed , at the moment they are collecting good money for not playing , there is no show, there is no business . Rather same as me.

Tigerbeat
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Tigerbeat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:17 am

This is a forum for discussion. We are in a very difficult situation together and need to take responsibility following guidance given. Any posts offering advice or saying how we should act which contradict official advice will be removed. The message needs to be clear and everyone listening to the official sources if we are to get through this together. Stay safe, be kind and think of others.
:smt023
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DeadlyDunc
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by DeadlyDunc » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:14 am

Tigerbeat wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:17 am
This is a forum for discussion. We are in a very difficult situation together and need to take responsibility following guidance given. Any posts offering advice or saying how we should act which contradict official advice will be removed. The message needs to be clear and everyone listening to the official sources if we are to get through this together. Stay safe, be kind and think of others.
:smt023
👍

Crumblies
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Crumblies » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:12 pm

Tigerbeat wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:17 am
This is a forum for discussion. We are in a very difficult situation together and need to take responsibility following guidance given. Any posts offering advice or saying how we should act which contradict official advice will be removed. The message needs to be clear and everyone listening to the official sources if we are to get through this together. Stay safe, be kind and think of others.
:smt023
:smt023

And perhaps today of all days we can leave the last words to all the Mums who said to their children

‘Cleanliness is next to Godliness’

Mum always knows best! Here’s to them all

Tigerbeat
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Tigerbeat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:20 pm

Emirates have today put a 50% pay cut on its employees.....this virus is hitting everybody and some hard times and decisions lie ahead.
Look out for each other!
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www.matthampson.co.uk

Crumblies
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Crumblies » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:41 pm

h's dad wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:40 am
Crumblies wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:55 pm
h's dad wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:46 am

Dont' be silly. There is a difference between washing your hands regularly and deciding how much of a mortgage you can comfortably take on while making any contingency that the reasonable person might take. The stupid mortgage to take on is one on a property on a flood plain that is regularly engulfed and that building on will only exacerbate.
You: ‘Anyone with half a brain predicted a global pandemic’

Me: ‘I’m afraid they did and have been doing so for quite sometime.’

I note you took out the 'this year' specificity - a key part of the point being made.

You: ‘If we tried to contingency plan for every possible disaster the world would grind to a halt.’

Me: ‘The Scientific Community and World Health Organisation have been warning governments and trying to educate the public for ye
ars of the likelihood of another pandemic it’s ramifications and the need to avoid it.

At no time in my posts have referred to any individual and their finances or their risks.

Mortgages were being discussed and you elected to link this to hand washing, a little tenuous but who am I to complain when someone shifts the topic a little.

However the simple fact is ‘The World has Ground to a halt’ and we are in a Global Catastrophe which all nations and all people could have taken steps to avoid or mitigate against, some very simple like hand hygiene. Now everyone and I mean everyone has to face the consequences of that.

Please don’t call me silly on a public forum when I offer a perfectly reasoned, sensible point of view.
All right, the imminent arrival of a pandemic has been predicted year after year for decades. Mostly it hasn't turned up when advertised but even a doom monger is right now and again.. If we all prepared for it permanently by stockpiling as much as we could in the smallest house we could buy as has been intimated, the economies of the world suffer for a massively extended period of time, and also we don't all want to do that. That doesn't mean governments shouldn't contingency plan but we don't have to spend our lives in bunkers 'just in case'. Although there is nothing to prevent those who want to live like that from doing so.

I think I originally posted with regard to player mortgages (which you have linked to hand washing!). People with shorter higher earning careers probably have a very different mortgage arrangement to most of us with much higher monthly payments for a shorter period of time. A few months out of that payment schedule for a payment holiday would mess them up far more than it would the rest of us.

Just trying to speak up for players who some seem to think have a cushy life on an exorbitant and unjustified salary.
I think this has to qualify as the most erudite nonsense I’ve ever read:

You: What’s my problem doctor?
Doctor: ‘You now have lung cancer from smoking; You were warned’.

You: ‘Yes but you didn’t say which year I’d get it’.

Tempting as it is to keep trying to get you to acknowledge that as part of your previous posts you effectively insulted the Scientists and medical staff. Now charged with the responsibility of caring for and desperately searching for immunisation against this disease.

Do you seriously think when people on little more than the minimum wage, struggling to feed their family, and pay their bills have just taken a pay cut of 20% that the majority of people give a damn about a sportsman earning in excess of 200k a year has their pay reduced by 25%?

Yes this it can be argued this is off topic for a Rugby forum. But right now it can also be argued that unless we can get through this in the next 6 months or so Rugby as we know it will no longer exist and 200k p.a. will just be a pipe dream.

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