Sale vs Leicester - 21st February 2020

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Re: Sale vs Leicester - 21st February 2020

Post by kk20gb30 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:36 am

Borthwick must have a free hand to do what he perceives as necessary - when and however.Some sort of of agreement must be in place or the club are on rocky ground to begin with.Only recently we have witnessed what occurs from a clash of styles and/or personalities between DoR and Head Coach and this can't be permitted to happen again.Equally I share the fear , that Borthwick may find himself hamstrung by our 'institutions' intrinsic resistance to change.Lets face it knives in the back have been common place and effective since Marcelo Loffreda's tenure.Real change may not be possible until the club is eventually sold, the BoD being supposedly quite receptive to the pleas of 'senior players'.
Whatever though we need to wake up.We are still a great club , with a proud history and tradition but the Premiership table and results do not lie.We are where we deserve to be.What ever we have been doing for the past 'fourish' seasons have brought only decline , so we best be ready to accept something new by looking outward.Bob Dwyer ripped apart some traditions times past ,Steve Borthwick must be given the same freedom.He must create a well drilled, professional side built on merit , ability and form and more importantly be given the freedom to do so - no matter who get their feelings hurt in the process.
On field direction , structure and discipline stems from who is charge off the field. Borthwick will need to be a strong man as no club is run by committee or a band of friends or mates.To me a picture is worth a thousand words , so being a Welford road for home games I have never witnessed our dressing room at half time.On Friday night I had the 'privilege'.I realise that TV can never show everything and that the majority we do not see but when you look at Exeter matches you see Rob Baxter directing play by plays at half time, Sarries have McCall together with another designated coach doing the same .Sale,on Friday, had players facing the same direction whilst Steve Diamond held court,waxed lyrical and paced an open floor.Being kind we had groupings scattered around with coaches vaguely in attendance in a series of seemingly unrelated conversations - one actually leaning against a wall with a (soft) drink in hand.Look, I admit I don't know what or how things were being said or conveyed - but I know what it looked like.I'm not a die hard Richard Cockerill fan , but if he was in that dressing room given the same set of circumstances things would not have looked or been the same - that I do really believe.
We need Borthwick.More so we need him to have free reign to stand or fall by his own choices.I hope he is big enough for the job.

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Re: Sale vs Leicester - 21st February 2020

Post by cpwhelan » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:47 pm

Just seen Ben Kay breath a sigh of relief when not asked about Friday's debacle.

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Re: Sale vs Leicester - 21st February 2020

Post by BFG » Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:01 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:12 am
i was at Sale and we were well beaten by the better team. Marginal decisions by the ref seemed to go against Tigers but that was not why we lost, we on the night were just not good enough. It is true that we had five players, a third of our team with England, Sale had just one and replaced him with an England quality back rower on loan from Newcastle and that all made a difference. Injury during the match to Taute seemed to change things with Reid who had been doing ok moving to centre where he was less effective but mainly it was our forwards that got beat. Weather conditions were horrible but that applied to both teams and it was Sale who handled the conditions better with kicks and catching.
I do not believe this team will finish 11th in the Premiership, I have seen enough to think we will beat enough teams to climb higher than our current position. Recruitment for this season of starting quality players was actually ok and the support players plus development guys improvement gives us a better squad than last year we just have to prove it on the pitch.
Since the sacking of Cocker which I will always believe was a mistake life for our team has been difficult, prior to Cocker going I believe some recruitment/retention was not wholly as he would have preferred. Matt O Connor came in and changed things that hastened decline, Geordan took over a squad that simply was not good enough and certainly was not able to cope with international call-up and injury, he was not helped by Toomua, a marquee player just not wanting to be here and trying to divide his time between Tigers and getting back into the Australian World Cup team.
We had a pre-season if you can call it that with no practice games a about a dozen of our first team were with their national sides preparing for or in Japan. We made a bad start, we should have won at Worcester even with the team we put out, we beat Gloucester, should have done better at Irish and were very poor against Saints, yet there have been times when we looked pretty good, unfortunately not for a whole match but for long enough to give a glimpse of what might be. I am sure the adjustments to the squad will continue for next season, Borthwick coming in may make a difference to the pack and the lineout. I am NOT in the sack Murphy party as I think he has had a lot of problems to cope with and I want to see some stability and continuity at our club, that does not mean I am happy where we are, it just means that I don't believe wholesale change is the answer. Our Academy and Development squads are doing really well at first team we have to provide the environment where these young guys can kick on and achieve their potential and we as fans have to help in giving them that chance by being understanding of mistakes. Tom Hardwick has actually done pretty well for us this season, he did not have a good game last time out with probably four errors in a game we won. Young Jack VP had a couple of kicks charged down at the AJB other than that he actually did well and is clearly one for the future, he is not the first 9 to have a kick blocked and will not be the last.
We do need a few more wins under our belt preferably starting next week against Worcester, results in the Premiership seem to show a lack of consistency for most teams so if we can put a run of results together mid table is not out of reach
I don't know what you've been watching as it is clear enough that there is no individual and team playing development going on under Murphy.
With George Ford missing it falls to pieces, it would appear that he is a better coach than the coaches!
Watching Exeter today and you can very clearly see an almost Ford-esque type development going on with their young fly half Simmonds within their team, mixing it up with straight line runners and depth attacking around the edges with forward strength and pacey runners they all know what they are doing and where and when.

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Re: Sale vs Leicester - 21st February 2020

Post by tigerssteve » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:51 am

ay2oh wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:01 am
tigerssteve wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:39 am
wellstiger wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:43 am

Did I say get rid on Monday? Was that my wish?? - This is has been a decline for 4-5 seasons and persons in all departments have accepted poor performances as the norm.
For all the excuses I have stated. If we had dealt with this at point of origin we wouldn't be scratting at "reasons " for our decline. When SB comes after 6N then you give him the tools sharpened so he can do the job and get rid of the surplace rubbish. How long does he stay?- If a top job looms is he gone? Will player power, as others have hinted at, hinder him?
Totally agree. Borthwick must be the boss and if he doesn't like what he sees, he has to have the authority to get rid. No matter who it may be, who he's related to or who he's mates with. Similarly, he must have the authority to recruit, be it Coach or player. My worry is that it won't be that way.
Let’s give Borthwick some credit. Before he agreed to take the job he would have set certain conditions regarding team selection, his other coaches and recruitment as he will not want to be seen to fail as this would hamper is future ambitions :smt016
This is Tigers we are talking about remember! With a self serving Board, with form. Say one thing, do another. It would not surprise me one bit to see Borthwick resign after quite a short reign because the B.O.D. won't play nicely. The last few years have confirmed my default position as cynical!

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