Saracens are relegated!

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daktari
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by daktari » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Telegraph are now reporting the players have been told the club has accepted other 35 point reduction and so are effectively relegated
find a better way of life, http://www.marillion.com

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mol2
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by mol2 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:22 pm

It's a bit woolly to identify a sound business model for top level sports teams.

They rely hugely on sponsorship whether from corporate sponsorship or from wealthy individuals sponsoring them. Either way the sponsors can leave if their business does less well, the sponsorship doesn't give the benefits they seek, the same applies to sugar daddies.

Having multiple smaller sponsors is probably a safer model but many teams are greatful for what they can get. One of many sponsors leaves it's not a disaster, they all do or your only big sponsor goes and the problems are all to plain.

Ticket sales are not enough for a well supported club like Tigers and for many barely scratch the surface.

The current press does seem to suggest that there is now real scrutiny of Sarries affairs. The departure of Wray may well indicate that the senior management do know that the path taken by them is wrong and not to comply will be a disaster for the club. How aware of what was going on may never be known, but it can be difficult to control powerful individuals who have succeeded by taking risks and not accepting that rules apply to them and to hell with the consequenses for those that get squashed in the process.

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:24 pm

daktari wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:16 pm
Telegraph are now reporting the players have been told the club has accepted other 35 point reduction and so are effectively relegated
it was 35 points for 2 seasons which is it now 35 points for this season when there was no way they didn't know they'd be over this season

daktari
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by daktari » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:27 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:24 pm
daktari wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:16 pm
Telegraph are now reporting the players have been told the club has accepted other 35 point reduction and so are effectively relegated
it was 35 points for 2 seasons which is it now 35 points for this season when there was no way they didn't know they'd be over this season
seems the original was 35 for each (2) seasons they were over but for some unknown reason leniency was shown and they were to run concurrently!
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fleabane
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by fleabane » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:19 pm

From The Telegraph, Friday 5.17pm


Saracens players have been told the club will accept a further 35-point deduction that will effectively spell relegation from the Premiership.

The English and European champions were deducted 35 points and fined £5.4 million having been in breach of Premiership Rugby’s salary cap over the past three seasons. Rival clubs remain convinced that they are spending way over the £7m limit this season, by as much as £2m.

After a meeting of Premiership clubs on Tuesday night, Saracens were subsequently handed an ultimatum to prove they were compliant with the cap this season or face a further draconian punishment.

New chief executive Edward Griffiths was confident that he could trim the wage bill at first by offloading squad players and those coming towards the end of their contracts. However, with the majority of Premiership clubs spending up to the salary cap, that task proved far harder than he first imagined, particularly as few clubs were willing to grant Saracens any favours. Nor could Saracens simply release players from their contracts as severance payments would count towards the cap.

It seems that Saracens have now accepted their fate and told the players at a meeting on Friday they are certain to be playing in English rugby’s second tier next season. The second deduction would bring their points down to -42 points, which would put them 53 points away from safety, as it stands, with 14 matches left to play. Only a miracle could keep them in the division.

Telegraph Sport understands players face individual meetings next week to discuss their futures. Saracens provided a large portion of the England team that reached the World Cup Final including the Vunipola brothers, Owen Farrell and Maro Itoje, whose co-investments with former chairman Nigel Wray first attracted the attention of Premiership Rugby’s salary cap manager, Andrew Rogers.

The Rugby Football Union have indicated that there is nothing to stop England head coach Eddie Jones from selecting players in the Championship, but whether matches against the likes of Ampthill and Hartpury would be sufficient preparation for international rugby is entirely another matter. Particularly in the season leading into the Lions tour to South Africa, those leading players face a stark test of their loyalty to each other and the club.

Saracens have the opportunity to qualify for the knockout stages of the Champions Cup if they beat Racing 92 at Allianz Park on Sunday. However even if they won European rugby’s elite competition for a fourth time, they would not be allowed to defend their title next season as sides sitting outside the Premiership are ineligible to compete.
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by BFG » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:22 pm

Reported on the Beeb that even if relegated there are benefits to Sarries star players to remain at the club as they can focus on playing for England whilst looking after their bodies with the occasional Championship run out and get plenty of quality training and rest to prolong their careers.

fentiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by fentiger » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:33 pm

BFG wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:22 pm
Reported on the Beeb that even if relegated there are benefits to Sarries star players to remain at the club as they can focus on playing for England whilst looking after their bodies with the occasional Championship run out and get plenty of quality training and rest to prolong their careers.
..and remain non-match hardened for when they are required :smt017

TomWeston
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by TomWeston » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:39 pm

mol2 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:22 pm
....
The departure of Wray may well indicate that the senior management do know that the path taken by them is wrong and not to comply will be a disaster for the club. How aware of what was going on may never be known, but it can be difficult to control powerful individuals who have succeeded by taking risks and not accepting that rules apply to them and to hell with the consequenses for those that get squashed in the process.
Wray’s departure might well be part of the punishment as he is at least 50% culpable with each of the players with whom he created/funded single purpose property companies. Perhaps that was part of the judgement which has not been released, or yet again it may have been insisted upon when it became apparent that Saffas were in breach this season despite Wray’s denials.

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:39 pm

fentiger wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:33 pm
BFG wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:22 pm
Reported on the Beeb that even if relegated there are benefits to Sarries star players to remain at the club as they can focus on playing for England whilst looking after their bodies with the occasional Championship run out and get plenty of quality training and rest to prolong their careers.
..and remain non-match hardened for when they are required :smt017
you are assuming Jones would pick them if they have played barely any rugby, plenty of time before the next world cup so he can leave them out without much risk

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by TomWeston » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:40 pm

There is still the not negligible 6 Nations.

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:49 pm

TomWeston wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:40 pm
There is still the not negligible 6 Nations.
yes we want to do well in the 6N but its not crucial, especially if Jones is blooding a few youngsters for the next WC early

wellstiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by wellstiger » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:55 pm

So.. Championship Rugby has no ceiling cap? Is this true?
If so what incentive is there for players to leave the club immediately.
Effectively see out this season- take the drop and take time to secure employment elsewhere. Play for England, take the wage.

Meanwhile Sarries build on their already in depth squad ready for a swift return to PLR.
All at the disadvantage to Championship teams.

Or am I wrong? :smt017 and /or is this fair? :smt017

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by BFG » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:01 pm

fentiger wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:33 pm
BFG wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:22 pm
Reported on the Beeb that even if relegated there are benefits to Sarries star players to remain at the club as they can focus on playing for England whilst looking after their bodies with the occasional Championship run out and get plenty of quality training and rest to prolong their careers.
..and remain non-match hardened for when they are required :smt017
Would it not be a similar approach to Ireland?
The Premiership and European schedule is more harmful than hardening.
Personally I think that if the rest of the Premiership is willing to relegate them then Sarries players will mostly stick together and stay at the club, they will return the following year with another years playing development of youngsters, refreshed international players, and no cap for the first season back in the Prem, and blow everyone away!

Mark62
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Mark62 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:08 pm

BFG wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:22 pm
Reported on the Beeb that even if relegated there are benefits to Sarries star players to remain at the club as they can focus on playing for England whilst looking after their bodies with the occasional Championship run out and get plenty of quality training and rest to prolong their careers.
These were exactly my thoughts, in the end it won’t do these players playing career any harm in terms of longevity, they won’t loose out financially next season, and things will be put in place for the following, although I believe the rules prohibit front loading of salaries.
A loophole will be found for England if one doesn’t already exists

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by fortysix » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:16 pm

Saracens are finished , for ever.
Actually dont think many will be too bothered. Can anyone foresee any multimillionaire wishing to pick up the pieces in 2 years time with such pitiful fan base, and at massive cost. A here today gone tomorrow outfit.

64000$ question is-----------who are Tigers targeting ?
Malins Itoje Earle ????

And apparantly, waiting to be confirmed, there is other bombshell awaiting Premiership followers..

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