Trouble at mill - May to go?

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Mark62
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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by Mark62 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:23 am

Youngs and May both have big decisions to make. Stay in the UK be it Tigers or another club, take a cut in their club salary but potentially keep their England match fees, and certainly for May the hope of a Lions tour.
Alternatively see out their remaining rugby life in France for an increased salary.

Imho no other premiership club will be paying £300k a year for either of 2 thirty year old internationals

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Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by Baz » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:25 am

"The club needs to rebuild, and pay cuts are on the way."

Could someone please explain what "rebuilding" means in this context? And why, on-field performance aside, has it suddenly become necessary? Attendances have been dropping off, unsurprisingly; is this connected to a fall in season-ticket sales. and a noticeable drop in revenue? If so, the so-called "management" can hardly have been taken unawares. So, does it mean wholesale changes to the playing squad, changes to the coaching staff, or just more major projects for the shareholders? Does anyone at grass-roots level actually know what it means?

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by kpj tiger » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:30 am

Baz wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:25 am
"The club needs to rebuild, and pay cuts are on the way."

Could someone please explain what "rebuilding" means in this context? And why, on-field performance aside, has it suddenly become necessary? Attendances have been dropping off, unsurprisingly; is this connected to a fall in season-ticket sales. and a noticeable drop in revenue? If so, the so-called "management" can hardly have been taken unawares. So, does it mean wholesale changes to the playing squad, changes to the coaching staff, or just more major projects for the shareholders? Does anyone at grass-roots level actually know what it means?
I think your massively over reading this, i'm pretty sure it means there's too much cap tied up in the wrong areas due to some shortsightedness particularly during the MOC period

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by LE18 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:32 am

It really makes you wonder if the club are financially sound. Club up for sale, last year lost £1.9 million, reduced gates, dwindling season tickets, less beer sales, poor performances and planning for relegation? Oh dear.

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by Baz » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:38 am

"I think your massively over reading this, i'm pretty sure it means there's too much cap tied up in the wrong areas due to some shortsightedness particularly during the MOC period"

Thanks for that. Assuming, God forbid!, that the cap has not been exceeded, I'd still like to understand what "rebuilding" is meant to achieve in this respect. What are the wrong areas, and what problems are the pay-cuts meant to address? If the intention is simply to achieve a reduction in the salary bill, "rebuilding" is a deliberately misleading term.

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by MurphysLaw » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:23 pm

It's funny, for years many on here have bemoaned the fact that Tigers have lacked a winger with absolute pace. Now we have one
of the fastest and best finishers in world rugby and to some he is a luxury we can do without.
Contrast the massive investment the likes of Bristol (Radradra and the Piatau bros, all on massively more than 300k) and Saints, who are rumoured to be about to sign another Fijian.
I know there are some promising young players such as Browning coming through, but if this report is true, we can only hope that Mr McGinity has been unearthing some gems who will not break the bank.

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by kpj tiger » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:30 pm

MurphysLaw wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:23 pm
It's funny, for years many on here have bemoaned the fact that Tigers have lacked a winger with absolute pace. Now we have one
of the fastest and best finishers in world rugby and to some he is a luxury we can do without.
Contrast the massive investment the likes of Bristol (Radradra and the Piatau bros, all on massively more than 300k) and Saints, who are rumoured to be about to sign another Fijian.
I know there are some promising young players such as Browning coming through, but if this report is true, we can only hope that Mr McGinity has been unearthing some gems who will not break the bank.
We did need a winger with pace but we now have 2/3, Holmes is not far short of May in terms of pace and Veainu is no slouch.

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by trendylfj » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:32 pm

In order of importance for me is the same as everyone else - Ford and Genge, After that, I would like to keep May then Youngs but I would like to keep them all. The idea of losing both Youngs and Harrison in the same season. fills me with a lot of worry.
Just as important if we are really rebuilding is to make sure that the youngsters to keep are clearly identified and tied up to contract of reasonable length.

I don't think I am alone in wondering if the size of our ground has something to do with the decline in season ticket sales - you can always get a ticket for every game so why spend money on a season ticket that you are not going to use 3 or 4 time a season when you can buy one when you can. I know that this is not the only reason but I do think it is a big factor.
Hehehehehehehehe

Mark62
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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by Mark62 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:51 pm

trendylfj wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:32 pm
In order of importance for me is the same as everyone else - Ford and Genge, After that, I would like to keep May then Youngs but I would like to keep them all. The idea of losing both Youngs and Harrison in the same season. fills me with a lot of worry.
Just as important if we are really rebuilding is to make sure that the youngsters to keep are clearly identified and tied up to contract of reasonable length.

I don't think I am alone in wondering if the size of our ground has something to do with the decline in season ticket sales - you can always get a ticket for every game so why spend money on a season ticket that you are not going to use 3 or 4 time a season when you can buy one when you can. I know that this is not the only reason but I do think it is a big factor.
Some excellent points here. Agree about May to a certain extent but it’s no good having the worlds best winger if we can’t get him the ball, and we’re not short of pace in other areas.
Again agree about Youngs and Harrison, though if for example Brad Webber, was available as a direct replacement problem solved.
Totally agree about the stadium. I understand something had to be done about the old club house end, and that that stand also houses, offices, catering facilities etc, but the ground is now almost too big. Even if we were top of the premiership it wouldn’t be filled every week. The benefits of season tickets are that it is a little cheaper, not significantly, than buying a ticket match by match, but why have that outlay if you know that at the beginning of the season you’re not going to be able to make 4 or 5 games.
The current performance of the team doesn’t help with match by match sales though.

However I would rather have the ground as it is, maybe as and when the Crumbie is redeveloped it could just be terracing as there are plenty of seats elsewhere.
Sale made this huge thing about selling out their game v Exeter, though it was quite obvious looking at the crowd, that there had been a lot of free/reduced tickets given out, as there were a huge number of youngsters

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:15 pm

May & Youngs you make an offer of this is what we can afford & its up to them.
Genge we must resign.
Ford would be good to retain but not at the detriment of the squad.
I genuinely wonder what the contract size of the Barrett brothers would be in comparison to Youngs, May & Ford?
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by BengalTiger » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:19 pm

It is not possible or adviseable for Tigers to retain current English players without a sugar daddy and or some creative accounting that is a plain fact
Our current internationals are not benefiting the club, Ben Youngs is the prime but not only example, I would argue they are harming the club by taking a big chunk of the cap but only playing a handful of games and then at only 50% effort.
I do not blame the individuals they cannot serve two masters equally, so the club suffers.
The upshot is we will have a team populated by Pacific Islanders , New Zealanders who were not quite good enough and a bunch of Saffas trying to make some money out of the game, nothing wrong with any of them but it is a sad indictment of where the game is going as there is no reward for bringing on or keeping English talent.
The system is broken and encourages negative play, financial cheating and poor player development.

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by CitizenSmiff » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:24 pm

I'd be gutted if May went as he's a joy to watch when he gets going and a lovely character to boot. That being said it's ludicrous how much cap we currently spend on a back line we barely see so something's got to give.

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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by fortysix » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Rather have May than Youngs, both of them, and Tuilagi.
Must keep Genge Ford and May

MurphysLaw
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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by MurphysLaw » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:03 pm

[quote=BengalTiger post_id=729999 time=1575983950 user_id=10609]
It is not possible or adviseable for Tigers to retain current English players without a sugar daddy and or some creative accounting that is a plain fact
Our current internationals are not benefiting the club, Ben Youngs is the prime but not only example, I would argue they are harming the club by taking a big chunk of the cap but only playing a handful of games and then at only 50% effort.
I do not blame the individuals they cannot serve two masters equally, so the club suffers.
The upshot is we will have a team populated by Pacific Islanders , New Zealanders who were not quite good enough and a bunch of Saffas trying to make some money out of the game, nothing wrong with any of them but it is a sad indictment of where the game is going as there is no reward for bringing on or keeping English talent.
The system is broken and encourages negative play, financial cheating and poor player development.
[/quote]

I think that there are credits allocated within the Salary cap regulations for both Home-grown players, and for Senior EPS players.
Also, players' earnings from internationals is excluded from the cap.
Furthermore, I think Clubs also potentially receive monies from hitting a threshold number of English Qualified players in each match-day squad.

JP14
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Re: Trouble at mill - May to go?

Post by JP14 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:18 pm

I have always said we need a big back three player like when we had Alesana or Goneva, if that has to be achieved at the expense of May, so be it we have Holmes and Veainu and a very good player in Browning coming up.
Last edited by JP14 on Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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