Borthwick

[Cagey Tiger]

The Beeb is reporting that Scott Wisemantel, England attack coach since mid 2018, is moving on despite being offered a new contract, his last contract having expired with the World Cup. The article says Steve Borthwick is expected to join us after the Six Nations. The article doesn’t say there is a link between the two things but I’d be surprised if Jones didn’t want to avoid too many changes at once.

On the same subjects, The Times is saying that Borthwick "is to join" Tigers. No timescale, but no ifs or buts.

[wellstiger]

The speculation and rumours could be quashed if a Statement was made by the Club
Under Pat H, were we not being "Open" and engaging with the supporters......

[chewbacca]

We have scoured the world and selected his lesser know antipodean cousin Bruce. No experience but the name is right.

[TTRITH]

Guardian reporting that he could join us before Six Nations if the RFU find a replacement, otherwise he won't officially join until after the Six Nation period. So it does sound like he'll be getting involved in renewals etc. which is a good thing long term but I can't help but think it's going to hamper us in the short term.

[Mark62]

Guardian reporting that he could join us before Six Nations if the RFU find a replacement, otherwise he won't officially join until after the Six Nation period. So it does sound like he'll be getting involved in renewals etc. which is a good thing long term but I can't help but think it's going to hamper us in the short term.

Don’t really see why if he’s definitely coming, he can’t be here until the England squad assembles, then go with England, and come back to Leicester. It’s not as though he doesn’t know the players

[ay2oh]

Perhaps we could get someone on a temporary basis until after the six nations

[markharbtiger]

See the article by Alex Spink in today’s Mirror on GM and Tigers. Claims (source apparently from GM?) that we’re in a waiting game with no particular timescale...

[RagingBull]

The no timescale fits with what others have said.

[johnthegriff]

IF? Borthwick is coming, what role will he occupy? His experience is with the forwards and set piece at lineout time. I would suggest that for the last twelve months that has not really been our problem area and even less so with the departures and recruitment in the close season. Our problem has mostly been with the backs and the ability gap between our first choices (who were unavailable too often) and their replacements. I believe this gap is less obvious for this season, and with the guys returning fro World Cup we will start to climb the table but this is not Borthwick's area of expertise. I have a lot of respect for Borthwick and would welcome him as part of the team assuming someone is leaving but I do not consider him qualified to be in absolute charge of our overall coaching set up, he just does not have the experience at Premiership level.

[RagingBull]

Wasn’t the line out one of the worst in the league last season?

[CitizenSmiff]

I have a lot of respect for Borthwick and would welcome him as part of the team assuming someone is leaving but I do not consider him qualified to be in absolute charge of our overall coaching set up, he just does not have the experience at Premiership level.

He's coached Saracens, Bristol, Japan and England and been very successful at all four, personally I'm very willing to give him a go in the big chair. We could also do with an attacking skills coach but one thing at a time.

[JP14]

Wasn’t the line out one of the worst in the league last season?

Maul wise yes, lineout by the end of the season we were actually mid-table.

[kend]

I have a lot of respect for Borthwick and would welcome him as part of the team assuming someone is leaving but I do not consider him qualified to be in absolute charge of our overall coaching set up, he just does not have the experience at Premiership level.

He's coached Saracens, Bristol, Japan and England and been very successful at all four.

Indeed, as a forwards coach but nowhere as head coach or DoR, so JtG's point is sound. IF Borthwick is recruited Tigers are betting on an untested coach at the overall level. If everything else was stable (solid performances on the pitch, secure ownership structure, mid to top table) it would be less of a risk, but in the present circumstances?

It does seem a bit odd to be recruiting a long term HC/DoR at this point. The club is up for sale and presumably whoever comes in will have their own thoughts on the right structure, so their appointment might be short-lived?

If the board really think they need a different solution surely you would go for a coach/DoR with a track record of turning a fundamentally sound but under-performing side around. Even if that was a short-term 'fix it and leave' appointment. Agree that is rather a short list of names......

[RagingBull]

Ackermann's first Head Coach job was the Lions.
Cheika's first major solo head coach role was Leinster (As far as i'm aware him and Knox had a fairly equal partnership till Leinster)
Robbie Deans first head coach role was the Crusaders and Canterbury.
etc
Townsend first head coach role was with Glasgow and he won the Pro 12
Schmidt first head coach role was Leinster

When you look at Borthwicks coaching experience he's basically spent the last 7 years in International coaching and has been an coach in 2 Rugby world cups. That's a lot of experience.

[Mark62]

Ackermann's first Head Coach job was the Lions.
Cheika's first major solo head coach role was Leinster (As far as i'm aware him and Knox had a fairly equal partnership till Leinster)
Robbie Deans first head coach role was the Crusaders and Canterbury.
etc
Townsend first head coach role was with Glasgow and he won the Pro 12
Schmidt first head coach role was Leinster

When you look at Borthwicks coaching experience he's basically spent the last 7 years in International coaching and has been an coach in 2 Rugby world cups. That's a lot of experience.

Leo Cullen another example who didn’t have a great deal of experience before taking over a Leinster