Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

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Traveller
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:53 pm

2nd week of July. It will be very good for everyone to read that Saracens are not in breach of the salary cap. Given that it was Premiership Rugby who said there was a need to investigate, it will be grand to read their conclusions. They announced the investigation in March.

The enquiry by parliament into the collapse of Northern Rock took three months from start to finish.

jgriffin
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by jgriffin » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:29 pm

Traveller wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:53 pm
2nd week of July. It will be very good for everyone to read that Saracens are not in breach of the salary cap. Given that it was Premiership Rugby who said there was a need to investigate, it will be grand to read their conclusions. They announced the investigation in March.

The enquiry by parliament into the collapse of Northern Rock took three months from start to finish.
Long grass. into. kick. no evidence. too late. oh dear.
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fentiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by fentiger » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:44 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:29 pm
Traveller wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:53 pm
2nd week of July. It will be very good for everyone to read that Saracens are not in breach of the salary cap. Given that it was Premiership Rugby who said there was a need to investigate, it will be grand to read their conclusions. They announced the investigation in March.

The enquiry by parliament into the collapse of Northern Rock took three months from start to finish.
Long grass. into. kick. no evidence. too late. oh dear.
...or in this case long plastic :smt044

Dangerous4
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Dangerous4 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:02 pm

Oh my, how very surprising. I bet they didn't even properly investigate it. Laughable farce.

mol2
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by mol2 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:56 am

I suspect it is an acceptance that the league cannot control players earnings outside of rugby. They don't own the players and do not own the sponsors and the law would likely take the opinion that players are free to make investments and have other streams of income than the club providing they are not interfering with their commitments and playing duties.

Whilst these ventures are thinly veiled attempts to pay players outside the club, arguably they were taking the Mickey, but in all probability would fall foul of laws that protect the individuals right to earn a living.

It is arguable that the salary cap in itself restricts players ability to earn a living by artificially restricting salaries and ulimately the number of players who can make a living as professionals. Even if it is done for the "right" reasons for the overall benefit of the league it doesn't make it enforcible in the real world.

Perhaps that is why Tigers are up for sale? The salary cap only exists in name and to compete a lot more money will be required.

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Bunchy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:02 pm

Has anybody seen the outcome - I have looked and can't find a thing?????????
Less is more....

loretta
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by loretta » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:15 pm

mol2 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:56 am
Perhaps that is why Tigers are up for sale? The salary cap only exists in name and to compete a lot more money will be required.
I could well be being a bit thick here, lord knows it wouldn't be the first time, but I can't see how the sale of shares held by private individuals to a 3rd individual (or group) automatically benefits the club. After all, it's not like the much-quoted £60 mill ends up in the Tigers coffers, it'll go to the current share-holders, won't it?

Or is everyone just expecting that anyone who buys them up will pour a load more our way?
All I said was ........

Traveller
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:27 pm

mol2 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:56 am
I suspect it is an acceptance that the league cannot control players earnings outside of rugby. They don't own the players and do not own the sponsors and the law would likely take the opinion that players are free to make investments and have other streams of income than the club providing they are not interfering with their commitments and playing duties.

Whilst these ventures are thinly veiled attempts to pay players outside the club, arguably they were taking the Mickey, but in all probability would fall foul of laws that protect the individuals right to earn a living.

It is arguable that the salary cap in itself restricts players ability to earn a living by artificially restricting salaries and ulimately the number of players who can make a living as professionals. Even if it is done for the "right" reasons for the overall benefit of the league it doesn't make it enforcible in the real world.

Perhaps that is why Tigers are up for sale? The salary cap only exists in name and to compete a lot more money will be required.
In which case

1. Don't pretend to have a cap.
2. Don't say - 'we are going to investigate'.

Not you 'saying it' - Premiership Rugby.

Traveller
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:27 pm

mol2 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:56 am
I suspect it is an acceptance that the league cannot control players earnings outside of rugby. They don't own the players and do not own the sponsors and the law would likely take the opinion that players are free to make investments and have other streams of income than the club providing they are not interfering with their commitments and playing duties.

Whilst these ventures are thinly veiled attempts to pay players outside the club, arguably they were taking the Mickey, but in all probability would fall foul of laws that protect the individuals right to earn a living.

It is arguable that the salary cap in itself restricts players ability to earn a living by artificially restricting salaries and ulimately the number of players who can make a living as professionals. Even if it is done for the "right" reasons for the overall benefit of the league it doesn't make it enforcible in the real world.

Perhaps that is why Tigers are up for sale? The salary cap only exists in name and to compete a lot more money will be required.
In which case

1. Don't pretend to have a cap.
2. Don't say - 'we are going to investigate'.

Not you 'saying it' - Premiership Rugby.

Bunchy
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Bunchy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:31 pm

have you seen the outcome or heard that the investigation has finished?
Less is more....

Traveller
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:19 pm

Bunchy wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:31 pm
have you seen the outcome or heard that the investigation has finished?
No. That's the point. In March Prem rugby said it was going to launch an investigation. March. It is now nearly Mid-July. Four 1/2 months. This is Saracens RFC, a relatively small business entity. Not a multi-national corporation. The investigations into Carillion and Northern Rock, both took 3 months.

It's not me suggesting that Saracens are in breach of the salary cap. I have absolutely no idea. It is Prem Rugby who said they were launching an investigation into Saracens. It seems for all parties it would be best to have it completed and in the findings in the public domain before the start of the next season. Maybe not.

Bunchy
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Bunchy » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:24 pm

ah ok - yes it would seem that this is not getting looked into quickly enough !!! To say the least..........

I still live in hope that the other clubs are putting sufficient pressure on to get this done and out in the open....
Less is more....

h's dad
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by h's dad » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:19 pm

Bunchy wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:24 pm
ah ok - yes it would seem that this is not getting looked into quickly enough !!! To say the least..........

I still live in hope that the other clubs are putting sufficient pressure on to get this done and out in the open....
You mean like the last one?
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

mol2
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by mol2 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:00 am

There are two likely reasons why this won't be seriously investigated and addressed.

1) The legal complexities regarding the enforceability of a salary cap. (If indeed the salary cap is legal under the law of the land)

2) For some of the clubs the old saying "People in glass houses...." Some clubs will be within the salary cap fair and square but I suspect that quite a number have overstepped the boundary even if not by much. This makes it difficult to get a consensus to go after one club when others are guilty of the same actions.

jgriffin
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by jgriffin » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:05 am

Sooner or later we were always going to get to this position once rugby admitted to being professional. Perhaps the only saving grace of not being the 'People's Sport' :smt005 is that some equilibrium will be reached way way below the farce of football wages.
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A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

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