Spencer and White for England

[mol2]

Am I missing something but whilst the Sarries side is clearly good enough to be European champions I wouldn't have thought that their props were their strongest attribute, nor for that matter scrummaging.

[JP14]

Am I missing something but whilst the Sarries side is clearly good enough to be European champions I wouldn't have thought that their props were their strongest attribute, nor for that matter scrummaging.

It’s better than what it was last season, but I think having the likes of Vunipola and Skelton pushing behind you does help.

[BFG]

Am I missing something but whilst the Sarries side is clearly good enough to be European champions I wouldn't have thought that their props were their strongest attribute, nor for that matter scrummaging.

It’s better than what it was last season, but I think having the likes of Vunipola and Skelton pushing behind you does help.

There aren't props playing in England that I'd take over Mako/Barrington and Koch.
They are good enough for triple European Cup winning DoR Mark McCall.
They might not be the biggest scrummagers but they have good technique and to be fair they had enough to beat Leinster at the set piece, but their workrates are phenomenal and they can play a bit but only when appropriate.
I'd take it all over Sinckler's flash or Painter's size.

[POSTIGER]

Am I missing something but whilst the Sarries side is clearly good enough to be European champions I wouldn't have thought that their props were their strongest attribute, nor for that matter scrummaging.

It’s better than what it was last season, but I think having the likes of Vunipola and Skelton pushing behind you does help.

There aren't props playing in England that I'd take over Mako/Barrington and Koch.
They are good enough for triple European Cup winning DoR Mark McCall.
They might not be the biggest scrummagers but they have good technique and to be fair they had enough to beat Leinster at the set piece, but their workrates are phenomenal and they can play a bit but only when appropriate.
I'd take it all over Sinckler's flash or Painter's size.

Agreed. Barrington is a very under-rated. To be honest, there's several Sarries players who are unlucky to be nowhere near the England squad. Obviously there's Alex Goode who everyone in the world would have in their England squad bar the current England coach. Another is Jackson Wray. Always thought he's a terrific player, gets around the park and a nuisance at the breakdown. He's unlucky to have never had an opportunity at international level.

Not sure of the logic of sending a herd of lambs to their collective slaughter? Surely a better idea to combine young talent with fringe players?

[Scott1]

I wouldn't have Goode anywhere near my England 23!

[BFG]

I wouldn't have Goode anywhere near my England 23!

McCall seems to rate him enough to play him at full back even with Liam Williams amongst his squad and they have won some silverware together!

[Scott1]

It's just called using my eyes and seeing his poor work under the high ball,his weak defending and the fact that I've never saw an international back get turned over as much!

[BFG]

⁸

It's just called using my eyes and seeing his poor work under the high ball,his weak defending and the fact that I've never saw an international back get turned over as much!

All England's backs have been prone to getting turned over, thats part of a wider team issue.

[Scott1]

In contact? Not really. I'm not classing turning over ball from poor kick return just bona fide turnovers through carrying ball into contact. Goode would never beat his man at the top level and unlike Brown wasnt strong enough to make yards and present the ball well. People say Brown died with the ball but he always made metres in contact (deceptively very strong) and I don't recall him ever being turned over.

[BFG]

In contact? Not really. I'm not classing turning over ball from poor kick return just bona fide turnovers through carrying ball into contact. Goode would never beat his man at the top level and unlike Brown wasnt strong enough to make yards and present the ball well. People say Brown died with the ball but he always made metres in contact (deceptively very strong) and I don't recall him ever being turned over.

You must've been watching with your eyes closed because I've seen everyone from Ben Youngs right through all of the backs to Mike Brown get turned over in recent years, it has been a fairly common theme in particular in big competitive matches.
Give me Goode's evasion skills over Brown's contact skills anytime.
Saracens make it work with Goode and extremely well.
Whether England could make it work is the question, I suspect some players workrates that haven't been enough anyway and see England fall down would continue to not be enough.

[Scott1]

Really? Well it must have been the very odd time because I can't remember them. It was a common reoccurring theme with Goode.

[BFG]

Really? Well it must have been the very odd time because I can't remember them. It was a common reoccurring theme with Goode.

Beam me up Scotty!

[Scott1]

Regardless,I'm glad Eddie sees it the same as me so I don't have to have kittens when Alex tries his stupid hitchkick or goose step and inevitably gets caught and smashed backwards,I remember even Adam Jones catching him in one 6N

[BFG]

Regardless,I'm glad Eddie sees it the same as me so I don't have to have kittens when Alex tries his stupid hitchkick or goose step and inevitably gets caught and smashed backwards,I remember even Adam Jones catching him in one 6N

Standard English (or idiot Aussie) view, and then you are on here always raving about super rugby skills and how open it is, and you'll likely be on here post World Cup raving about the likes of Damien McKenzie's evasion skills and asking why England can't be that good whilst all the time being critical of the skill that does exist in England!
Same foolish views that would make it difficult for Vincent Koch to get into many English academies as he wouldn't be tall enough, wouldn't be fat enough, and his feet are probably too small!

[Scott1]

It's only a skill if you manage to pull it off ,jeez! Goode is a fantastic club player who fails in an International shirt,and who mentioned Koch??