All Coaches except Boris must go now..

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FrontRowUnionMember
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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by FrontRowUnionMember » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:15 pm

You read the comments from the likes of Taufua, Reid, Taute etc, they all seem to have been sold on joining the club by Murphy and his enthusiasm.
Just a thought, but some suggest the Anglo Welsh era Geordie coached Tigers showed bravery and invention. Maybe he has the structure in mind, but needs others to coach the skills to deliver. Back then, we had Cockers and Mauger (if my maths is right) coaching the skills and core systems, with Murphy putting the tactics into place to that team.
Does this tie in with comments that a new head coach will join after the World Cup. Suggests an international coach looking for a return to day to day club coaching.
Graham Rowntree, sticking with the recent theme of Tigers old boys, respected forward coach, currently Georgia forwards coach.
Milton Haig, former club level assistant under Vern Cotter, and age grade NZ coach. Currently with head coach with Georgia.

Definitely need a new defence coach, new attack coach, and new forwards coach, however that workload may be balanced.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by westwinds31 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:52 pm

FrontRowUnionMember wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:15 pm
You read the comments from the likes of Taufua, Reid, Taute etc, they all seem to have been sold on joining the club by Murphy and his enthusiasm.
Just a thought, but some suggest the Anglo Welsh era Geordie coached Tigers showed bravery and invention. Maybe he has the structure in mind, but needs others to coach the skills to deliver.
Good post, Murphy was skills coach and there wasn’t an ounce of improvement in terms of the basics, ball handling, not an offload in sight.....add to that since he’s taken over, forwards repeatedly running into the opposition, no footwork or invention and some crazy decision making under pressure and it’s got worse. He’s clearly respected by players, but as a player I suspect. Robertson, O’Gara, Worsley...three names to get us back on track, it won’t happen but one can dream.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Traveller » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:16 pm

After the South Africa v Tigers game years ago, I found myself with a friend sitting with Geordan Murphy and Peter Wheeler in the Caterpillar stand after midnight. I had no right to be there, but both were engaging and welcoming. I say that because I had nothing but admiration for Murphy, and my only face to face contact with him was extraordinarily positive. So what comes next, is written with a heavy heart.

However what has GM done in any capacity as a coach (skills, attack, Head) to suggest that he is right for the role? Anything? Giving youngsters an opportunity - is not a reason in itself - I could select youngsters and lose. All the evidence we have tells us that in fact GM is not competent in the role he currently occupies. He has proven it.

Does anyone believe that if Jones, Gatland, Cotten or Schmidt had been appointed after the first match of the season, Tigers would be in the mess they are today. The players wouldn't have been their personal choices. There might still be injuries. But an elite coach would have worked around these issues. That is what makes them elite coaches.

Elite coaches are not paid for winning the games they should win. They are paid for winning games they should lose. The current crop of Tigers coaches cannot win games they should win. We should generally win at home. Other teams do.

Tigers need an elite coaching set up. If they cannot afford or convince Jones, Schmidt, Cotton or Gatland, fine. But we need the next tier down, or the next tier. What we cannot do is persist with a group of coaches who have proven that they are the bottom tier and expect to see any fundamental change.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Scott1 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:35 pm

Fantastic post Traveller!

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by FrontRowUnionMember » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:57 pm

Traveller wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:16 pm
Tigers need an elite coaching set up. If they cannot afford or convince Jones, Schmidt, Cotton or Gatland, fine. But we need the next tier down, or the next tier. What we cannot do is persist with a group of coaches who have proven that they are the bottom tier and expect to see any fundamental change.
That’s what makes me wonder about Haig. Don’t know loads about him, but read he was assistant to Cotter previously, and coached age grade NZ, he may fancy trying his hand back in the club game. Allegedly was recommended for his current post by Cotter.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by mol2 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:44 am

My concern that in the past our attempts to appoint top tier coaches have failed to happen or proven very short lived.

Loffreda & Meyer. What were the real reasons for them leaving I doubt we can be certain, however were they fully supported by the players and in-house coaches. I suspect not. For too long Tiger's coaching roles have been the domain of recently retired players.

If we do get a high level coach/DOR the board must back him and show the door to any voices that try to undermine him.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by TTRITH » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:54 am

mol2 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:44 am
My concern th



Loffreda & Meyer. What were the real reasons for them leaving I doubt we can be certain, however were they fully supported by the players and in-house coaches. I suspect not. For too long Tiger's coaching roles have been the domain of recently retired players.
I'm pretty sure there was no nasty business behind Meyers departure. Well, I mean there was nasty business in terms of what the family was going through, but nothing orchestrated at the club.
Richard Burnett
:axe: :smt100

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by chris111 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:04 am

norfolkexpat wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:55 pm
That's the final straw. An abysmal display , and the Coaches have to be held responsible. A number of the younger players are never be going to make the grade, and the No 11 missed numerous tackles. How can Northamptons winger weigh twice as much as ours. ?????
I’m sure Geordan will be grateful for your apparent suggestion that fatter wingers will resolve the club’s current difficulties!

Perhaps you could also assist him by providing the names of those younger players you have determined will “never make the grade” so he can hand them their P45s? Honestly, this Board sounds more and more like the hyperbolic outrage factories that infest the round ball game...

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by fortysix » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:09 pm

If we had the Northampton No 11 we would have scored a shed load more tries.

Olowofela is far too stringy for top notch rugby as proven in his litany of missed tackles and missed finishing . I appreciate he isnt the only one, Tuilagi and Toomau are both equally liable, however none of our young backs are anywhere near quick enough, compare them with Thorley, thats the barometer. Chalk and cheese

If Tigers are ever going to recreate their past, there is only room for one slowcoach---a top quality creator, such as Devoto.

Its pace and size that wins matches, aided by a creative fly half, unless you have the sublimity of Goode Veaninu Cipriani or Murphy of old.... Which apart from George, we dont possess

Methinks Murphy has selected players similar to him, but that argument doesnt wash any more in todays Premiership
The rest, I,m not bothering to name all follow the same pattern in the backs.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by mol2 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:26 pm

In Ford we have probably the best creative fly half in England.
In Manu we have a magnet for the defense - seems to be sufficiently good enough at this for England and his apparent flying up in the defensive line probably illustrates how slow the rest are as it hasn't been too much of a problem when he plays for England.
Toomua - hasn't worked out. Injured for much of the time and then seemed disenchanted when he doesn't get to play fly half.
Johnny May - now a world class winger.

That combination should scare the life out of the opposition.

Why are we not creating is the issue - that's largely down to the forwards 4-8 are not committing the oppsition defense and not offloading having done so. When we have runners there is no one on his shoulder to clear out or receive. So we kick the ball away and defend too much and are clearly not good at it.

Sure we have missed Youngs at scrum half and Vianu/Holmes at full back.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:45 pm

fortysix wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:09 pm
If we had the Northampton No 11 we would have scored a shed load more tries.
Probably conceded more though. His defence is as bad as Owolofela's if not worse.
fortysix wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:09 pm

Its pace and size that wins matches, aided by a creative fly half, unless you have the sublimity of Goode Veaninu Cipriani or Murphy of old.... Which apart from George, we dont possess

Methinks Murphy has selected players similar to him,
I'd argue that increasingly size and speed don't win you matches. These days the top end defences are too good to run over or run round. Yes having pace and power certainly helps but skills and a step to manipulate defenders and move the ball into space are more important than ever. Looks a Leinster, fantastic at isolating defenders and offloading from the tackle, support players flooding through so that the opposition defence is desperately scrambling. Even if you don't score off of the phase you make the break the defence is then so narrow having run back in to defend the break there's space outside.

I wish we had players like Murphy for him to pick. Owolofela doesn't have the step nor the skills that Geordan could casually produce and make look effortless. Owolofela has improved this season and you can see Geordan shaping those improvements with the work under the high ball (excellent against Saints) and his kicking from hand. We've not see. Him cut loose and attack like he did with the under 20s though but I guess that the prevailing negativity around the club is pushing the players towards going through the motions as any error is leapt upon by those most upset by our current inability to win a game.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by BFG » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:11 pm

fortysix wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:09 pm
If we had the Northampton No 11 we would have scored a shed load more tries.

Olowofela is far too stringy for top notch rugby as proven in his litany of missed tackles and missed finishing . I appreciate he isnt the only one, Tuilagi and Toomau are both equally liable, however none of our young backs are anywhere near quick enough, compare them with Thorley, thats the barometer. Chalk and cheese

If Tigers are ever going to recreate their past, there is only room for one slowcoach---a top quality creator, such as Devoto.

Its pace and size that wins matches, aided by a creative fly half, unless you have the sublimity of Goode Veaninu Cipriani or Murphy of old.... Which apart from George, we dont possess

Methinks Murphy has selected players similar to him, but that argument doesnt wash any more in todays Premiership
The rest, I,m not bothering to name all follow the same pattern in the backs.
I agree with you.
There is a common joke around the areas about foot size and height needing to meet criteria for anyone unconnected.
The acceleration from a standing start or drift is shocking in some cases and more so given some playing positions.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by POSTIGER » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:47 pm

Traveller wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:16 pm
After the South Africa v Tigers game years ago, I found myself with a friend sitting with Geordan Murphy and Peter Wheeler in the Caterpillar stand after midnight. I had no right to be there, but both were engaging and welcoming. I say that because I had nothing but admiration for Murphy, and my only face to face contact with him was extraordinarily positive. So what comes next, is written with a heavy heart.

However what has GM done in any capacity as a coach (skills, attack, Head) to suggest that he is right for the role? Anything? Giving youngsters an opportunity - is not a reason in itself - I could select youngsters and lose. All the evidence we have tells us that in fact GM is not competent in the role he currently occupies. He has proven it.

Does anyone believe that if Jones, Gatland, Cotten or Schmidt had been appointed after the first match of the season, Tigers would be in the mess they are today. The players wouldn't have been their personal choices. There might still be injuries. But an elite coach would have worked around these issues. That is what makes them elite coaches.

Elite coaches are not paid for winning the games they should win. They are paid for winning games they should lose. The current crop of Tigers coaches cannot win games they should win. We should generally win at home. Other teams do.

Tigers need an elite coaching set up. If they cannot afford or convince Jones, Schmidt, Cotton or Gatland, fine. But we need the next tier down, or the next tier. What we cannot do is persist with a group of coaches who have proven that they are the bottom tier and expect to see any fundamental change.

Well said that man. My thoughts exactly.

I can understand the logic of those who don't want to see further changes and I might agree with them if I saw any positive signs but I can't see how anyone can justify keeping this coaching team when they're so demonstrably ineffective.

Change can be a very good thing....if you get it right. It's that part the hierarchy have consistently messed up.
I saw Marika Vunibaka play

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Dangerous4 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:13 pm

What confounds me is that our supporters can see where the problems lie, but the BOD seem oblivious to them. Just why is this? Ostriches with their heads buried in the sand, should not be on the BOD. It is not only frustrating, but damned frightening that something so obvious remains unresolved, and ignored.

So, where does all this leave us? Methinks an even worse scenario will happen, with our club floundering, and decent players not wanting to come here. The break between this season and next, will be paramount to our future aspirations, and be even more important than our playing season. It's make or break time, and unless the powers that be don't rectify our problems, then I fear the writing will be on the wall for our once great club.

I am not being a doom monger, but just facing reality.

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Re: All Coaches except Boris must go now..

Post by Scott1 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:35 pm

Spot on D4, crunch time! Forget rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic,it's time to finally sort things out. I don't expect it though,if we stay up I believe the BoD will put it down to it being a one-off and carry on as normal!

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