Sarries next week

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BFG
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by BFG »

sam16111986 wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:51 pm
BFG wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm One thing that I forgot to mention and that was that I thought Worth made a positive contribution today.
Of all the recent youngsters so far he has contributed more all round than anyone in my opinion.
It has been mentioned before that some see him as a potential 10/12 and in my opinion he is much better than Hardwick and I thought that he cleverly attacked the line and set up the try really well today.
I'm not sure if 15 is best suited positionally to get the most out of him but he certainly is a solid young player.
Worth is 22 and Hardwick 19. Worth of developing very well and his all round game looks to be coming together well. MOC moved him into the midfield presumably because he doesn't have much above average pace.

Hopefully Hardwick will develop with exposure to senior rugby. He certainly looks to have the raw potential to be a really good player for us.
Worth has always been a strong player, MOC was right and as yesterday proved again he has attacking strength flat to the line and amongst traffic, Worth has a bit of Farrell about him and he should be developing as a 10 in my opinion.
Hardwick has more of the Oli Bryant about him, in my opinion.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by Soggypitch »

Yes Worth was one of the few positives. Varndell an utter waste of space.

Individual errors cost us in the end as well as just chucking in the towel at the death, but the concerning thing for me was the lack of any penetration in our pack. We literally went backwards through the phases. As someone else pointed out Kalamafoni is a willing workhorse, but more of a mule than a shire unfortunately, just not enough yards made and the same is true for all of our pack.

When we have our full set of backs out, it is a serious/classy backline, but I'm afraid we will continue to be a mid table team at best, until we find a proper set of forwards. We've signed one, but plenty more are required plus a proper clear out.

Very sad to see our decline, but the important thing is to know how to rectify it, I just don't know if I have confidence in the current team (and I don't just mean the coaches) to do that. Time will tell as it always does.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by sam16111986 »

BFG wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:07 am
sam16111986 wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:51 pm
BFG wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm One thing that I forgot to mention and that was that I thought Worth made a positive contribution today.
Of all the recent youngsters so far he has contributed more all round than anyone in my opinion.
It has been mentioned before that some see him as a potential 10/12 and in my opinion he is much better than Hardwick and I thought that he cleverly attacked the line and set up the try really well today.
I'm not sure if 15 is best suited positionally to get the most out of him but he certainly is a solid young player.
Worth is 22 and Hardwick 19. Worth of developing very well and his all round game looks to be coming together well. MOC moved him into the midfield presumably because he doesn't have much above average pace.

Hopefully Hardwick will develop with exposure to senior rugby. He certainly looks to have the raw potential to be a really good player for us.
Worth has always been a strong player, MOC was right and as yesterday proved again he has attacking strength flat to the line and amongst traffic, Worth has a bit of Farrell about him and he should be developing as a 10 in my opinion.
Hardwick has more of the Oli Bryant about him, in my opinion.
Interesting comparisons. Watching Hardwick for the England under 20s reminded me strongly of Farrell at the same age. That massive boot, defensive physicality, short passing game close to the line with the occasional big pass to the winger. Farrell was a very limited player at that age and in some ways still is (he's never had a side step). He had a Sarries team that played to his strengths and benefitted massively from going on a Lions tour with BOD and Sexton.

Worth reminds me more of Vesty. Particularly with that dummy and step yesterday, I always loved the way he seemed to ghost past the first tackler. Whilst he can play 10 I'm not sure his kicking is accurate enough. I certainly thought he should move to 12 in the summer but since Murphy has come in he's become so strong under the high ball I'd keep him at 15. Brown never had the pace but did alright at 15. Plus utility backs are really useful.

I remember Oli Bryant for a great side step and skillful passing game. Didn't have the kicking range to manage a game and wasn't physical enough to move to 12. Then again he didn't get too many chances.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie »

Not sure what's more depressing watching the team play or reading this forum.

Do we really have to churn out the same comments after every game when pretty much everyone agrees on what the problems are?

I think the majority (although not all) are behind Geordie and understand that there will not be major changes to playing staff until next season, so if we can't be positive shouldn't we at least remain neutral until it's 'Geordie's Team'?

Of course if people think that effectively cutting and pasting the same negative comments game after game helps the cause then they have every right to do so.
If you don't go in hard it's not a tackle it's an insult.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by sapajo »

Soggypitch wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:30 am Varndell an utter waste of space.
Yep, we signed him because he is an Ex Tiger, alongside evey single coach that is either an Ex Tiger or an Ex Tigers employee, bar Bakewell. Therein lies the eternal incestuous problem that continues to strangle the survival, development and progression of our great club.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by BFG »

sam16111986 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:26 am
BFG wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:07 am
sam16111986 wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:51 pm

Worth is 22 and Hardwick 19. Worth of developing very well and his all round game looks to be coming together well. MOC moved him into the midfield presumably because he doesn't have much above average pace.

Hopefully Hardwick will develop with exposure to senior rugby. He certainly looks to have the raw potential to be a really good player for us.
Worth has always been a strong player, MOC was right and as yesterday proved again he has attacking strength flat to the line and amongst traffic, Worth has a bit of Farrell about him and he should be developing as a 10 in my opinion.
Hardwick has more of the Oli Bryant about him, in my opinion.
Interesting comparisons. Watching Hardwick for the England under 20s reminded me strongly of Farrell at the same age. That massive boot, defensive physicality, short passing game close to the line with the occasional big pass to the winger. Farrell was a very limited player at that age and in some ways still is (he's never had a side step). He had a Sarries team that played to his strengths and benefitted massively from going on a Lions tour with BOD and Sexton.

Worth reminds me more of Vesty. Particularly with that dummy and step yesterday, I always loved the way he seemed to ghost past the first tackler. Whilst he can play 10 I'm not sure his kicking is accurate enough. I certainly thought he should move to 12 in the summer but since Murphy has come in he's become so strong under the high ball I'd keep him at 15. Brown never had the pace but did alright at 15. Plus utility backs are really useful.

I remember Oli Bryant for a great side step and skillful passing game. Didn't have the kicking range to manage a game and wasn't physical enough to move to 12. Then again he didn't get too many chances.
Well we certainly do see things differently.
Brown has very good pace.
Worth has the focus and physical potential for the position that a young Farrell had in my opinion, the rest is development as was the case for Farrell.
There are all different sorts of 10 and combinations and ideas on such, and for me from what I have seen I see potential in a future Simmons/Worth half back pairing, whether others can or can't though is far more important.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by Scott1 »

Brown has only recently become quicker due to working with a sprint coach,he's still not rapid though in back terms.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by Scott1 »

Great post sapajo and something I've been saying for an age!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by fleabane »

sapajo wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:34 am
Soggypitch wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:30 am Varndell an utter waste of space.
Yep, we signed him because he is an Ex Tiger, alongside evey single coach that is either an Ex Tiger or an Ex Tigers employee, bar Bakewell. Therein lies the eternal incestuous problem that continues to strangle the survival, development and progression of our great club.
Overweight, doesn’t tackle, avoids contact, half hearted chasing the ball, slower. Ideal.
Valhalla I am coming!
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by RagingBull »

Worth doesn't have the control to be a 10, he's a natural 12 IMO.
Physical, quick enough off the blocks, good pass and good awareness.

The comparison to Farrell is pretty off considering Worth doesn't have the kicking game that Farrell pretty built himself around.

I do think Simmons is the best 9 coming up.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by BFG »

RagingBull wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:11 am Worth doesn't have the control to be a 10, he's a natural 12 IMO.
Physical, quick enough off the blocks, good pass and good awareness.

The comparison to Farrell is pretty off considering Worth doesn't have the kicking game that Farrell pretty built himself around.
It may be off for you and that's your prerogative, but for me it's pretty clear!
Farrell's game was quite off at 10 once upon a time and not that long ago, it's about being in a position and developing to full potential!
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by RagingBull »

Farrell was a full on international 10 at 20..............
Sure he played 12, but he was still never far off being a 10, in his entire rugby development.

But you name me once when you have seen Worth demonstrate the kicking game needed for a 10?
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by Scott1 »

Farrell has always been a very good 10 and he's a progressive player too. He's gone from just a kicking 10 to a superb passer off both hands and he even attacks the line now too.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by BFG »

RagingBull wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:18 am Farrell was a full on international 10 at 20..............
Sure he played 12, but he was still never far off being a 10, in his entire rugby development.

But you name me once when you have seen Worth demonstrate the kicking game needed for a 10?
What you are suggesting is that Leicester are developing a full back who doesn't kick well and that in itself is wrong!
The lad can kick and I have seen it, and he can certainly develop it and especially with the amount of focus he has shown and the ability to learn on such things as improving under the high ball.
Leicester have struggled with midfield traffic since Flood moved on, Worth has shown an aptitude to cope with this, the rest is as much about development for him as it would be for anyone else.
I remember a time when Farrelll was an average fly half, very limited in his game and way behind Charlie Hodgson who had far more natural talent, but Farrell has developed his game over time and is now a better player but importantly in the modern game he has the physical and mental attributes to cope with midfield traffic.
We can argue until the cows come home but I've told you what I think and at the end of the day future success will be the true barometer.
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Re: Sarries next week

Post by RagingBull »

You can't compare kicking at 15 to kicking 10.
It's a massively different thing.


But you are right this will only be going round in circles.
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