Bristol v Tigers

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ourla
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by ourla »

Wasn't sure if I should post this because I am wondering if I am trying to defend the indefensible... but here goes...

I've watched the recording of the first hour of Saturdays game. So first of all let me say of course it wasn't a great performance and not a performance anybody should be happy with. But... it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...

First try was poor defence for sure. We just got caught cold in the first couple of minutes. Definitely need to be more switched on. No excuses.

Whilst Bristol then had a lot of possession I thought we defended pretty well and looked fairly comfortable. Bristol then in a similar fashion to us gifted us a try, all be it well finished off by Manu.

We then butchered a couple of good opportunities. Which again is a similar pattern to previous games. We seem to go through some good phases, with some good breaks and gaining yardage only to fail 5/10 metres from the try line. Now, of course, that is what the whole thing is about. But for me, it's not that we are bereft of the ability to create try scoring opportunities, just we aren't finishing them off. That is a lot easier to fix than being clueless going forward.

The second Thatcher try was a marginal call on the completed tackle. At the same time he shouldn't be allowed to get up and gallop on uncontested. Another day we may have got away with it but when things aren't going for you...

Then we have the red card. If he was tackling a bigger man or if he'd just dipped a bit. People say it's a League thing with Eastmond, which probably has some truth in it. But he's not like he's been red carded every week or that others haven't been caught out. So I know if's, but's and maybe's are no good.

The third try arguably came as a result of the missing centre and was a killer blow. Bristol are the sort of team that will thrive on having a lead and a player advantage. Yes, we know that, yes we should be coached/trained to play the game to counter it. But it's not a surprise something like that happened.

We are lacking confidence, heads are dropping when things are going against us, etc. But for large phases of the game we are defending well and as I say we are creating opportunities. I just think there are a heap of small things that are killing us. I don't believe we don't have a good squad, I don't even believe they are being coached badly.

I am not trying to positive for the sake of it, I am not even trying to be unduly positive. I am just asking myself if we are really a complete busted flush. And I honestly don't feel that after watching the first hour of Saturdays game. Shoot me down if you must!
kend
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by kend »

BFG wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:12 am I don't know kend, I wonder with things all being so unsettled and new in the coaching set up, players being away with internationals, plus the knocks and injuries, I doubt that they have had much time to practice to the required standard with a full side let alone with 14.
I'd highly recommend watching the Sarries v Bristol match from round two, it's an interesting watch and puts Thacker into perspective, it also shows just how important George Smith is to Bristol in the loose given their style of play and it also highlights the impact that a red card can have and adds some perspective.
Also keep an eye on the tactics of the Bristol tacklers getting up and discretely obstructing on the wrong side of the ruck.
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/video/ ... y-round-2/
True enough BFG. I think though, even if they couldn't train for it, you would expect the coaches to have done the 'what if' bit prior to the game and have some sort of strategy. And doubtless they did and either it didn't work (what is the quote about 'plans not surviving contact with the enemy'?) or they were constrained (for all I know Toomua is carrying a knock).

And let us be honest, if you were on the pitch and the IC was sent off after 20, you might well think 'this is all pointless from here on in' and aim to get to the changing room in one piece for the next game? And actually, it might be the rational thing to do.....

Don't misunderstand, my sympathies are always with the coaches and players; they are operating in a high pressure environment and if it were easy more of us would be doing it!

Thanks for the link - I'll have a look.
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by DingDong »

ourla wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:49 pm...it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...
...then just to remind you: 41-10 with 56% possession.
JP14
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by JP14 »

I’ve always been a huge fan of Spencer. His words make me like him even more, however it is really disappointing that a relatively new squad member is saying this and not the so-called “Captain”

https://twitter.com/leicestertigers/sta ... 38976?s=21
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ourla
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by ourla »

DingDong wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:08 pm
ourla wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:49 pm...it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...
...then just to remind you: 41-10 with 56% possession.
Yeah, I know the score thanks. I was more looking at the performance and the critical points of the game. The scoreline isn't always a true interpretation of the game. And sometimes some aspects of performance are hidden or excusable. As I said I am not trying to gloss over anything. It was a billed by me as a "must win game" and we weren't clearly weren't even close. But I was saying that in terms of our chances of getting in the play offs and getting our season on track. It's crazy to say the result changes everything. But I think it changes the perspective in terms of neither we (Tigers) nor anyone else can say we are "in the mix". Discussions about trophies, European qualification, relegation are not worthy of discussion at the moment. The only thing that matters is the next match and doing some of the things better. Starting with defensive (several aspects) and execution in the red zone. The scrum is fine, we know that. The line has improved IMO. We are making breaks. We just have put more pieces in the puzzle and create a better picture.
ourla
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by ourla »

JP14 wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:38 pm I’ve always been a huge fan of Spencer. His words make me like him even more, however it is really disappointing that a relatively new squad member is saying this and not the so-called “Captain”
One of the ironies of the current situation is that Spencer, Denton and Thompson have brought in exactly what it said on the tin. And until Saturday you'd say Eastmond had been a qualified success.
JP14
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by JP14 »

Regardless of the red card I think Eastmond has been a quality acquisition.
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drc_007
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by drc_007 »

ourla wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:19 pm One of the ironies of the current situation is that Spencer, Denton and Thompson have brought in exactly what it said on the tin. And until Saturday you'd say Eastmond had been a qualified success.
That occurred to me as well!
Does that suggest the problem is the Tigers coaching?
ourla
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by ourla »

drc_007 wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:22 pm
ourla wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:19 pm One of the ironies of the current situation is that Spencer, Denton and Thompson have brought in exactly what it said on the tin. And until Saturday you'd say Eastmond had been a qualified success.
That occurred to me as well!
Does that suggest the problem is the Tigers coaching?
You'd think so wouldn't you but to be honest I'm not so sure. That is to say that at times the various components have looked very good... for example we'll defend 20 phases and make a turnover but then have a couple of moments of madness and an opponent will waltz through with barely a hand on him. Just when you think we've got the line out sorted we'll lose one on our 5m line and put ourselves under pressure. We'll break the gain line a couple of times and get up to the opponents 5m line then knock it on. The Saints game we didn't played great but everybody thought the old Tigers dog was back. We played great against Scarlets at home. We let Worcester run riot and then clawed it all back. And so on.

We are clearly lacking in confidence. We've clearly had injuries and lack of continuity in who's available. We clearly started the season undercooked.

I just think we need to give it time, I honestly do. The problem is patience is a little bit thin, with the fans especially and with the wider world of punditary and social media. Four years ago everyone would be a lot more relaxed and would assume we would get it right. We now have Exeter and Saracens sitting in our chair and are racked with self doubt.
Robespierre
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by Robespierre »

I didn’t see the match but reading between the lines of what I’ve read on this forum, isn’t motivation the problem - or lack of? Making players want to do what the coach wants them to do is plain and simple motivation, what I learnt all those years ago as a manager. Does Geordan Murphy have what it takes to do this? It seems not! I have been as willing as a lot of us here to give him time to prove himself, but for me, that time has now run out.
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by Sydneytiger »

I have spent the last few days since Saturday thinking about things and also where to post my thoughts. I must admit that whilst the players must take their fair share of the blame for the result I do have some sympathy for GM. Comes interim coach one game into the season and then just has the players for 6 weeks to work on his own game plan. At the end of this period we then turn in our best game of the season so far by beating Scarlets, also having beaten Saints the week before.

Then he loses his best 8/9 players to international duty for 5 weeks who go off and play under different coaches and in a very different environment. So he has to start again with a half a new set of players some of who may or may not be good enough but that’s the hand he has got. 3 cup defeats and 2 league defeats. However went to the Sarries game and saw some good signs apart from the missed tackles in the 10min spell when they scored their tries.

He then gets the international players back and for effectively the third time this season he has to almost start all over again. First up then is an away game against a side who have had a stable team and coach from the start of pre season and are clearly one of the better promoted sides in recent years. Perhaps we shouldn’t have expected much in the first place. We need to see an improvement game on game now so that by the time we play Quins on the 22nd (a real 8 pointer) we are back to where we were when we played Scarlets. He will have had them for 4 weeks then and I think he needs time.

However also agree that the squad isn’t deep enough so I do fear for what will happen in the 6 nations and more importantly that our best and most well paid players need to stand up for Tigers if they want GM to be the longer term answer.
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by tigerssteve »

Injuries and international breaks interrupting training have always happened. Yes, maybe some aspects can be put right with more time but the biggest disappointment is attitude. Missed training doesn't explain that!
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by G.K »

Well I only just watched the match lat night and I don't know which is more depressing, watching the match or reading through the comments on this forum.

So many faults at so many levels, and so glaringly obvious to anyone that has played Rugby even at schoolboy level. TBH I can tell within 10 minutes that Tigers are going to lose, lack of intensity, dull play, no runners, poor skills, it goes on and on and on.

What is it now 4 years like this with the odd decent game here and there. Tigers are pretty much everyone's whipping boy now.

:smt009 :smt009 :smt009
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by ourla »

tigerssteve wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:43 pm Injuries and international breaks interrupting training have always happened. Yes, maybe some aspects can be put right with more time but the biggest disappointment is attitude. Missed training doesn't explain that!
I think the added ingredient is a missing Head Coach pre-season, followed by him being sacked after one game.

Also the player churn - trying to bed in new players and bring through Academy players at the same time.
ourla
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Re: Bristol v Tigers

Post by ourla »

G.K wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:46 pm Well I only just watched the match lat night and I don't know which is more depressing, watching the match or reading through the comments on this forum.

So many faults at so many levels, and so glaringly obvious to anyone that has played Rugby even at schoolboy level. TBH I can tell within 10 minutes that Tigers are going to lose, lack of intensity, dull play, no runners, poor skills, it goes on and on and on.

What is it now 4 years like this with the odd decent game here and there. Tigers are pretty much everyone's whipping boy now.

:smt009 :smt009 :smt009
I disagree. Some of our rugby this season has been top drawer, some dogged, some meh and some :censored: poor. It's been wholly inconsistent and unpredictable. And I think part of the reasons lie as stated in my previous couple of posts.
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