Tigers vs Saracens

[fortysix]

Am afraid one of the commentators suggested the Sarries backs were miles sharper than our pedestrian lot.

Past sell bye date ---------Harrison J Ford Owen Thompstone ( still think he would make a good back up centre a la Smithy)

Smithy---- massively great servant, not fair on him any more....

Jury really really out-----Olafewla Hardwick Worth, none nearly sharp enough, the first named was expecting to see electric pace. He just isnt

IF they are to improve, BRING IN A SPRINT COACH ASAP.......... Certainly not a doom monger, just totally realistic and 65 years going to WR since I was 7.....

[Tomvarndell]

Fortysix

It was yourself who talked rubbish a few hours ago saying Sarries players were 30% quicker when that is blatantly wrong. As Ourla stated a few comments back. The main difference was Eddie decided not to pick a couple of game changers for England which benefited Sarries. We were competitive for most of the game. A crazy ten mins , started by that awesome fly half Joe Ford attempting a chip changed the whole game. We lost by less than a score which is an absolutely brilliant performance if we were 30% slower.

[h's dad]

Am afraid one of the commentators suggested the Sarries backs were miles sharper than our pedestrian lot.

Past sell bye date ---------Harrison J Ford Owen Thompstone ( still think he would make a good back up centre a la Smithy)

Smithy---- massively great servant, not fair on him any more....

Jury really really out-----Olafewla Hardwick Worth, none nearly sharp enough, the first named was expecting to see electric pace. He just isnt

IF they are to improve, BRING IN A SPRINT COACH ASAP.......... Certainly not a doom monger, just totally realistic and 65 years going to WR since I was 7.....

miles sharper? Now that's a lengthily incisive comment. Who knew that distance was measured on the Rockwell scale? Must be a commentator we can take as gospel.

Thompstone has used Margot Wells in the past. I would be surprised if specialists weren't still coming in on a regular basis but I don't know the current position. Would be nice to hear from somebody who knows.

[BFG]

I question whether it is an over exaggeration!
Did you not see Sarries tries, never mind slowest forwards several of Tigers quicker players were left standing!
However all debate aside to rubbish it without any proof to the contrary is arrogant.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a subject that neither side can prove and to be honest is a complete waste of time!

Sorry Scuttle but these calumnies against Tigers players need to be addressed.

I don't know the times for the backs involved in this match but if you will allow that they run and that they are professionals; top flight 100m runners have a spread of about 7% from the world champion to the guy who comes last in every heat and never makes the final. The difference between the world champion and a decent amateur club runner does get close to 30%.

You may suggest the two are not comparable. I would suggest that it is a very valid comparison.

Unless Tigers are picking random guys off the street to play (you may believe this), you are wrong.

You are aware that if you have to turn and chase somebody who is sprinting away from you, they are getting further away while you turn and accelerate aren't you?

Conveniently, you miss attributes such as vision, footwork, acceleration, mechanics etc just to create an argument for arguments sake and it's boring!
This ain't sports day at junior school!
I'd suggest watching Sarries tries, if you still aren't convinced of a large gulf in speed then I'd recommend a visit to specsavers!

[ourla]

The backs is clearly where we have been hit hardest with international call ups and injuries but let's look at that second string...

Harrison is OK - a solid back up
J Ford - was OK on the day for me but we should have better if we want to win things
Holmes - no problem
Eastmond - no problem
Owen - juries out
Thompstone - a solid back up
Worth - juries out

White - young, still learning, juries out
Hardwick - young, still learning, juries out (Malins has looked better)
Smith - is what he is - maybe could do better

Who’s Thompstone “back up” for?

I get where you are coming from. In the last couple of seasons he's been first choice but I guess I am thinking the likes of Veanu/Holmes are the new gen.

[ellis9]

Our reserve backs are chronically far too slow.
Sarries second string were 30% quicker.
The only one worth perservering with was/ is Eastmond.
The others, past their sell by ---------or never going to reach it....
Heaven help us up till Christmas because if we lose , its relegation time very quickly....

In my last post, I mentioned people on here completely over exaggerating. This is the perfect example!

There is nothing over exaggerated in that post!

Well if you can't see it when it's pointed out, then there's no helping you.

[h's dad]

I question whether it is an over exaggeration!
Did you not see Sarries tries, never mind slowest forwards several of Tigers quicker players were left standing!
However all debate aside to rubbish it without any proof to the contrary is arrogant.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a subject that neither side can prove and to be honest is a complete waste of time!

Sorry Scuttle but these calumnies against Tigers players need to be addressed.

I don't know the times for the backs involved in this match but if you will allow that they run and that they are professionals; top flight 100m runners have a spread of about 7% from the world champion to the guy who comes last in every heat and never makes the final. The difference between the world champion and a decent amateur club runner does get close to 30%.

You may suggest the two are not comparable. I would suggest that it is a very valid comparison.

Unless Tigers are picking random guys off the street to play (you may believe this), you are wrong.

You are aware that if you have to turn and chase somebody who is sprinting away from you, they are getting further away while you turn and accelerate aren't you?

Conveniently, you miss attributes such as vision, footwork, acceleration, mechanics etc just to create an argument for arguments sake and it's boring!
This ain't sports day at junior school!
I'd suggest watching Sarries tries, if you still aren't convinced of a large gulf in speed then I'd recommend a visit to specsavers!

Actually I was the first to mention attributes other than the sole criterion of pace which was your original claim.
It's not junior school - it's elite sport which I definitively reference in the points I make so what are you blithering about?
Your sport is more angling as you are wriggling like a fish on a hook.

[BFG]

Sorry Scuttle but these calumnies against Tigers players need to be addressed.

I don't know the times for the backs involved in this match but if you will allow that they run and that they are professionals; top flight 100m runners have a spread of about 7% from the world champion to the guy who comes last in every heat and never makes the final. The difference between the world champion and a decent amateur club runner does get close to 30%.

You may suggest the two are not comparable. I would suggest that it is a very valid comparison.

Unless Tigers are picking random guys off the street to play (you may believe this), you are wrong.

You are aware that if you have to turn and chase somebody who is sprinting away from you, they are getting further away while you turn and accelerate aren't you?

Conveniently, you miss attributes such as vision, footwork, acceleration, mechanics etc just to create an argument for arguments sake and it's boring!
This ain't sports day at junior school!
I'd suggest watching Sarries tries, if you still aren't convinced of a large gulf in speed then I'd recommend a visit to specsavers!

Actually I was the first to mention attributes other than the sole criterion of pace which was your original claim.
It's not junior school - it's elite sport which I definitively reference in the points I make so what are you blithering about?
Your sport is more angling as you are wriggling like a fish on a hook.

If you read well then I think you'll see a reference to "up top" by myself long before you decided to jump in.
Fish on a hook, maggot bait!

[h's dad]

If you read well then I think you'll see a reference to "up top" by myself long before you decided to jump in.
Fish on a hook, maggot bait!

Yes, you said SPEED is up top. Nobody (as far as I am aware) said you only do it with your legs.
And I don't need to go to specsavers to know that any team with a 30% advantage will put 100+ points on the other team and the losing team certainly won't get a LBP. As an advocate of amateur rugby you should have the perspicacity to comprehend this and possibly even seen it now and again. But clearly not.

[BFG]

If you read well then I think you'll see a reference to "up top" by myself long before you decided to jump in.
Fish on a hook, maggot bait!

Yes, you said SPEED is up top. Nobody (as far as I am aware) said you only do it with your legs.
And I don't need to go to specsavers to know that any team with a 30% advantage will put 100+ points on the other team and the losing team certainly won't get a LBP. As an advocate of amateur rugby you should have the perspicacity to comprehend this and possibly even seen it now and again. But clearly not.

I really don't recall anyone claiming that there was gulf between the teams, but just amongst some of the backs.
To be honest its a pointless debate anyway, has been for pages, but a complete waste of time on here if folk with the hump aren't going to read posts properly and quote out of context.

[JP14]

Sorry to add to the pointlessness but whilst 46 is being the delusional, pessimistic self that he is having a speed coach is not a bad idea, further proof that our coaching is underesourced.

[RagingBull]

No teams have a speed coach in their staff.

On the whole most players in all leagues pay for one themselves should they want it.
It’s a tricky one like kicking coaches, the value for money really isn’t that good for the teams, and it should IMO be down to the players to sort it themselves.

People seem to think we should have a coach for every little thing, but it really isn’t feasible.

[sam16111986]

No teams have a speed coach in their staff.

On the whole most players in all leagues pay for one themselves should they want it.
It’s a tricky one like kicking coaches, the value for money really isn’t that good for the teams, and it should IMO be down to the players to sort it themselves.

People seem to think we should have a coach for every little thing, but it really isn’t feasible.

Sprint training is very specific and should be tailored to the individual as it'll be as much about technique as the physical side. Without due care it's easy to pick up muscle injuries as well. Getting a coach for 45 odd first team pli plus academy just won't work. You'd need to up skill the S&C department as well as bringing in an experienced specialist. Very expensive.

George Ford uses a sprint coach up at Loughborough University.

[milesanderson]

Chris Boyd from the Hurricanes or Milton Haig who coached Georgia.

[RagingBull]

Chris Boyd from the Hurricanes or Milton Haig who coached Georgia.

Boyd coaches Saints now.