Autumn Internationals

[LE18]

The weather was the leveller today.
Ball in hand New Zealand were on another level.
Lawes was offside for me and obviously the officials, the only thing I didn't see clearly and have not seen again, was it a ruck!
Should've taken the three points.

Hindsight is a great thing, but I agree with you. (unless you play for ABs)

[Soggypitch]

I've just seen it again and he was onside when the scrum half picks the ball up, that's ruck over for me. Obviously tight but should give the benefit of ant doubt to the attacking team, especially if it's England!!

We desperately need Brown or Goode at full back and Hartley is perhaps not finished yet despite most saying he is!!

[BFG]

The weather was the leveller today.
Ball in hand New Zealand were on another level.
Lawes was offside for me and obviously the officials, the only thing I didn't see clearly and have not seen again, was it a ruck!
Should've taken the three points.

Hindsight is a great thing, but I agree with you. (unless you play for ABs)

Yes with hindsight my accumulator on today's underdogs was wasted but Fiji let me down anyway, at half time in that game I could've been considerably better off tonight!

[LE18]

I've just seen it again and he was onside when the scrum half picks the ball up, that's ruck over for me. Obviously tight but should give the benefit of ant doubt to the attacking team, especially if it's England!!

We desperately need Brown or Goode at full back and Hartley is perhaps not finished yet despite most saying he is!!

He was standing offside, not behind the rear foot and when the ruck moved forward, it was even clearer, before the SC picked the ball up.
I too wanted England to win, but to argue against the correct ruling is not playing fair! Lawes was stupid on 2 very late and critical plays!

[JP14]

Robbed of a try but robbed of the game?

[JP14]

I believe that Lawes was level with the back of the ruck and that when Perenera picked up the ball the ruck was over.

Poor Underhill, he scored one of the great openside tries in my opinion, Barrett was absolutely torn apart.

[Bristol Tiger]

I believe that Lawes was level with the back of the ruck and that when Perenera picked up the ball the ruck was over.

Poor Underhill, he scored one of the great openside tries in my opinion, Barrett was absolutely torn apart.

Agree with this, and agree with your previous comment - I think we were robbed of a try but we didn’t quite deserve to win the match. The All Blacks were the better team and while they rode their luck, a fair end result.

On the “offside”, if that was offsite there were at least another 5-6 during the match (on both sides) so where were the penalties for those? You can’t change your interpretation of the laws in the last 10 minutes of a game. Jerome clearly wasn’t convinced but the TMO ( a South African I think?) was quite forceful on his point. Jerome should have overruled.

England still had the chance to win/take the lead - two kickable penalties that we opted for lineouts? Poor handling in the last 5 minutes when a drop goal was a clear option - just not TCUP.

Overall, we deserved to win last week IMHO but there should have been a SA penalty at the end; this week we were second best overall so a fair result. So officiating errors balance out and perhaps align with a “fair” outcome?!

[HantsTiger]

We went toe to toe and came up a little short, all things considered not a bad result. England need to get more streetwise though, numerous losses at the lineout, ABs constantly holding players on the floor off the ball and in the breakdown. We need to be quicker to sort this out.

[BFG]

I have to say I thought Lawes was offside if that was indeed a ruck, but I wasn't sure it was actually a ruck!
I'd need to see the entire situation again, I recall seeing an England player in there but wasn't sure that he was in there to contest and create a ruck, that being the case surely Lawes can come from anywhere as we have seen Nathan Hughes do on many occasions!

[sam16111986]

We went toe to toe and came up a little short, all things considered not a bad result. England need to get more streetwise though, numerous losses at the lineout, ABs constantly holding players on the floor off the ball and in the breakdown. We need to be quicker to sort this out.

Agreed. You also can't go a full half without scoring against the Kiwis. Needed to maybe look for another drop goal or a penalty anything to get the scoreboard moving. Opting for a second 5m lineout when there was a kickable penalty was a poor decision, maybe if the ref was handing out lectures to the AB forwards but when the game is that close just take the points.

[Soggypitch]

Kaplan the ex SA ref says in the DT that definitely the try should have stood.

Apparently the IRB only said in the recent past that attacking teams should be given the benefit of the doubt, we were not.

Poor decision and we were robbed, as always seems to happen with the ABs. Maybe they have the refs on the pay roll....

[loretta]

Yes, the TMO was South African. If we had lost last week, would the try have been allowed today?

[LE18]

Yes, the TMO was South African. If we had lost last week, would the try have been allowed today?

Please will you all stop being cynical, making excuses, Lawes was offside.

[Greenwhiteandred]

My god - watch the replay - draw a line from the end of the ruck (BFG -following Italy’s interpretation of the ruck vs England a couple of seasons ago I think World Rugby would call it a ruck) Lawes was offside and then the ruck moved forward a foot or two and Lawes was even more in front of the end of the end of the ruck when Perrara picked the ball up. Anyone agreeing with Barnes idiotic claims it was not offside frankly says it all for me. We were massively lucky last week with the Farrell tackle - this week we were “unlucky” but it was 100% correct. Not sure why the ref needed the TMO to make the call when he watched it on the big screen- offside is kind of black and white when someone is not behind or close to being behind the back feet of a ruck.

[BFG]

My god - watch the replay - draw a line from the end of the ruck (BFG -following Italy’s interpretation of the ruck vs England a couple of seasons ago I think World Rugby would call it a ruck) Lawes was offside and then the ruck moved forward a foot or two and Lawes was even more in front of the end of the end of the ruck when Perrara picked the ball up. Anyone agreeing with Barnes idiotic claims it was not offside frankly says it all for me. We were massively lucky last week with the Farrell tackle - this week we were “unlucky” but it was 100% correct. Not sure why the ref needed the TMO to make the call when he watched it on the big screen- offside is kind of black and white when someone is not behind or close to being behind the back feet of a ruck.

My understanding of a ruck formed is one player from each team entering on their feet over the ball.
The only England player anywhere near was the tackler who was pinned on the ground by the All Black players.