Tigers v Sale

[chris111]

We won, but that is where the good points stop, if we play like that on Saturday we will be totally embarrassed by Saints which is not a pleasant thought.

Do we have 2 fit centres?

I think you're being overly-pessimistic...Saints are hardly setting the world alight at present! At FG I'd pick Saints for a narrow win - at Twickenham a toss-up.

[ourla]

We have only played 1 'good' team this Season and that was Exeter - the rest have been average to poor . Lots of much harder fixtures ahead and things not looking good .

Chiefs and Sarries are a long way of everyone including Wasps. We should expect to get nothing home or away against those. Wasps are just about next best managing to eke out small margin wins but after that it's much of a muchness and it's about who plays best. or gets the refs decisions, on the day.

[Chobbsy]

We won, but that is where the good points stop, if we play like that on Saturday we will be totally embarrassed by Saints which is not a pleasant thought.

Do we have 2 fit centres?

I think you're being overly-pessimistic...Saints are hardly setting the world alight at present! At FG I'd pick Saints for a narrow win - at Twickenham a toss-up.

Like I said do we have 2 fit centres?

[LE18]

Best part of the last 2 matches has been watching "Elvis", and that's been pretty painful! Rugby has been dire!

[LE18]

Having sufficiently recovered i'm going to try to rate each players performance.

1 Bateman worked really hard in loose etc, got pinged a couple of times in scrum. 5
2 Youngs, ditto, much improved lineout, 6
3 Cole, shadow of his former self, 5
4 Williams, worked really hard in tight, 5
5 Kitchener, good game, 5
6, Denton, works really hard, good signing, 7
7 Thompson, good signing, some good turnovers, 7
8 Kalamafoni, bit quiet yesterday, worked really hard, but nothing flash, 6
9 White, tried hard before injury, 4, replaced by Ben, must stop him box kicking, 3
10, Ford, class act kicked well, tackled bravely, 8
11 May, often out of position when needed on his wing, our most potent attacker, 7
12, Eastmond, played well, able to create half openings, 6
13, Owen, ditto, 6
14, Thompstone, almost anonymous, 4
15, Olowefela, sadly out of position so many times, must not let ball bounce, 3

My marks make it look better than it was, guess others will have different opinions. Scraped a win against a poor Sale side, who would have beaten us if they had kicked the goals.

[Mark62]

Having sufficiently recovered i'm going to try to rate each players performance.

1 Bateman worked really hard in loose etc, got pinged a couple of times in scrum. 5
2 Youngs, ditto, much improved lineout, 6
3 Cole, shadow of his former self, 5
4 Williams, worked really hard in tight, 5
5 Kitchener, good game, 5
6, Denton, works really hard, good signing, 7
7 Thompson, good signing, some good turnovers, 7
8 Kalamafoni, bit quite yesterday, worked really hard, but nothing flash, 6
9 White, tried hard before injury, 4, replaced by Ben, must stop him box kicking, 3
10, Ford, class act kicked well, tackled bravely, 8
11 May, often out of position when needed on his wing, our most potent attacker, 7
12, Eastmond, played well, able to create half openings, 6
13, Owen, ditto, 6
14, Thompstone, almost anonymous, 4
15, Olowefela, sadly out of position so many times, must let ball bounce, 3

My marks make it look better than it was, guess others will have different opinions. Scraped a win against a poor Sale side, who would have beaten us if they had kicked the goals.

In what way is Cole a shadow of his former self

[Leicestertinytiger]

Having sufficiently recovered i'm going to try to rate each players performance.

1 Bateman worked really hard in loose etc, got pinged a couple of times in scrum. 5
2 Youngs, ditto, much improved lineout, 6
3 Cole, shadow of his former self, 5
4 Williams, worked really hard in tight, 5
5 Kitchener, good game, 5
6, Denton, works really hard, good signing, 7
7 Thompson, good signing, some good turnovers, 7
8 Kalamafoni, bit quite yesterday, worked really hard, but nothing flash, 6
9 White, tried hard before injury, 4, replaced by Ben, must stop him box kicking, 3
10, Ford, class act kicked well, tackled bravely, 8
11 May, often out of position when needed on his wing, our most potent attacker, 7
12, Eastmond, played well, able to create half openings, 6
13, Owen, ditto, 6
14, Thompstone, almost anonymous, 4
15, Olowefela, sadly out of position so many times, must let ball bounce, 3

My marks make it look better than it was, guess others will have different opinions. Scraped a win against a poor Sale side, who would have beaten us if they had kicked the goals.

In what way is Cole a shadow of his former self

Agree with LE18, Cole was poor. I know he held his side of the scrum up and won a penalty but more is expected of props these days. He got ran around in defence, did nothing at the breakdown and hardly made any ground ball in hand. Bateman was the better prop out of the two of them and has been all season.

[Mark62]

Fair enough not what I saw but there you go. Wasn’t his best game but to say he was a shadow of his former self is harsh. I actually think his ability to get to the break down quickly is hindering him as he is then in the defensive line against quicker players. Maybe he needs to be told to stay wider with the other fat boys

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

Defence, while still needing some work was head and shoulders better than last week. Scrum looked good. Lineout improving.

For me it's our attack where work is needed. We persist with the flat ball game which is great when you have players running on to the ball at pace but we don't. The majority of the time everyone outside George Ford is stood still and takes man and ball with no opportunity to find any gap in the defensive line. Attempting the 'impossible' flat ball is also leading to handling errors and lack of forward momentum. This is made increasingly difficult when the offside law isn't refereed as it wasn't against Worcester or Sale.

My frustration is that with experienced players on the pitch we should be able to adapt our approach to the game and invoke plans B, C and D if the situation requires it.

At the moment our attacking game is ponderous and predictable. Good news is that this can be rectified on the training ground and improved in the same way that seems to be working in the other areas of our game.

I think we have the players, up the pace of our game and give the backs some room to work and we will hopefully see a revitalised team.

[Mark62]

Defence, while still needing some work was head and shoulders better than last week. Scrum looked good. Lineout improving.

For me it's our attack where work is needed. We persist with the flat ball game which is great when you have players running on to the ball at pace but we don't. The majority of the time everyone outside George Ford is stood still and takes man and ball with no opportunity to find any gap in the defensive line. Attempting the 'impossible' flat ball is also leading to handling errors and lack of forward momentum. This is made increasingly difficult when the offside law isn't refereed as it wasn't against Worcester or Sale.

My frustration is that with experienced players on the pitch we should be able to adapt our approach to the game and invoke plans B, C and D if the situation requires it.

At the moment our attacking game is ponderous and predictable. Good news is that this can be rectified on the training ground and improved in the same way that seems to be working in the other areas of our game.

I think we have the players, up the pace of our game and give the backs some room to work and we will hopefully see a revitalised team.

LIKE

[fortysix]

If Rugby had a law where you could just put a front row on for a scrum, and remove them immediately afterwards, Cole as he is at present, would be that man.

[JP14]

Interesting comments post-match on BBC RL, Steve Johnson remarking quite correctly in my view that the laws need looking at because concussions are not decreasing in occurrence. I believe World Rugby needs to ban mauls in open play, if a player is held up the ref should shout “tackle” and it would be play on. Therefore the likelihood of players going high in the tackle to hold them up should decrease, more players will tackle lower, less players will get concussions. Won’t eliminate the problem, but should at least help rectify it a little.

[Smudge]

My frustration is that with experienced players on the pitch we should be able to adapt our approach to the game and invoke plans B, C and D if the situation requires it.

Of course but we had inexperienced and new players that were playing in the place of our first choice experienced players.
JM clearly has a big decision to make in tight games whether to continue with tiring players or risk younger inexperienced players to get us over the line. There are arguments for both courses of action. I am sure his preference would be to put them on during the last ten minutes when the game is well won. Unfortunately we have not had that luxury lately. Even when we are building, we still want to win.
As for plans B, C, and D? That was my complaint years ago and was never fully addressed.

The "smash'em, stuff it up your jumper" plan can still work if all else fails but even then, you need a good pack leader.

[BFG]

If Rugby had a law where you could just put a front row on for a scrum, and remove them immediately afterwards, Cole as he is at present, would be that man.

Like there'd be any need the feeds are that crooked!

[MrPartridge]

Love the player ratings BTW... Cole, shadow of his former self (5), Kitchener, good game (5).... Is it me...

Tait out until after Christmas, possibly longer... (sorry not to have better news)...