Coaching Staff

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jamiewilkinson
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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by jamiewilkinson » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:20 pm

BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm
Perhaps the Young brothers, Manu, Cole and George Ford as senior players have to much input into the way Tigers play and don't carry out the coaches instructions, if that the case time to drop them and give some of the younger players a chance to stake their claim to more game time.
Agree, I feel our senior players are the problem, Murphys got the position he worked hard to get and the players have their mate in charge.
Ben Kay suggests Ford wasn’t happy with the way MOC wanted to play, perhaps didn’t help that he bought a world class 10 in that showed him up last season when he was away from England, but yet when he returns we played Toomua in the centre?
Ben Youngs has been lucky we haven’t bought a world class 9 in, but I still believe our replacements for him are a better option, he allows the defence to gain metres in the tackle and puts pressure on our attack. Why do we continue to play him when he is in poor form?
As for Tom, and I write strictly on the field, he has a punch up with Barrow...Barrow leaves!
He is not captain material.
He irks the officials, and is unable to get them on his side.
He claims the bad times aren’t that bad and the good times aren’t that good when talking about results. A mediocre approach to getting results!
We bring in a world class hooker and yet Tom stills starts when not in form?
Surely he wouldn’t be happy with TPN coming in to challenge for the starting shirt.
TPN isn’t gona stay if he knows Tom is first choice whatever happens.
Sadly I feels it’s time to say thank you to the youngs brother and move them on, or get someone in to remove this player power.

All imo of course, but I don’t like the way this is going.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:36 pm

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:18 pm
Three things need sorting out extremely quickly. DEFENCE DEFENCE DEFENCE.

We need a defensive system that all understand and buy into and we need it yesterday. If we can't get an outsider in quickly then give it to an insider as their sole responsibility whilst we find someone. Ant Allen or Brett Deacon seem the obvious choices to me.
I thought Brett Deacon had been made defence coach (again - after MOC took it upon himself). :smt017
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by TigerCam » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:44 pm

Whoever it is it ain't working!!
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:09 pm

jamiewilkinson wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:20 pm
BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm
Perhaps the Young brothers, Manu, Cole and George Ford as senior players have to much input into the way Tigers play and don't carry out the coaches instructions, if that the case time to drop them and give some of the younger players a chance to stake their claim to more game time.
Agree, I feel our senior players are the problem, Murphys got the position he worked hard to get and the players have their mate in charge.
Ben Kay suggests Ford wasn’t happy with the way MOC wanted to play, perhaps didn’t help that he bought a world class 10 in that showed him up last season when he was away from England, but yet when he returns we played Toomua in the centre?.
I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted on him standing deep and passing wide when we had no momentum. Pretty much completely wasting Ford's abilities.

Ford has been excellent since Murphy took charge because Murphy plays Ford to his strengths. On the gain line passing to players on the move. We've starting scoring tries again and Ford has been one of not if our best players for the last three games. Can't say he's a senior player that's a problem.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by BFG » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:07 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:09 pm
jamiewilkinson wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:20 pm
BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm
Perhaps the Young brothers, Manu, Cole and George Ford as senior players have to much input into the way Tigers play and don't carry out the coaches instructions, if that the case time to drop them and give some of the younger players a chance to stake their claim to more game time.
Agree, I feel our senior players are the problem, Murphys got the position he worked hard to get and the players have their mate in charge.
Ben Kay suggests Ford wasn’t happy with the way MOC wanted to play, perhaps didn’t help that he bought a world class 10 in that showed him up last season when he was away from England, but yet when he returns we played Toomua in the centre?.
I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted on him standing deep and passing wide when we had no momentum. Pretty much completely wasting Ford's abilities.

Ford has been excellent since Murphy took charge because Murphy plays Ford to his strengths. On the gain line passing to players on the move. We've starting scoring tries again and Ford has been one of not if our best players for the last three games. Can't say he's a senior player that's a problem.
Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.

ellis9
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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by ellis9 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:13 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:07 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:09 pm
jamiewilkinson wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:20 pm


Agree, I feel our senior players are the problem, Murphys got the position he worked hard to get and the players have their mate in charge.
Ben Kay suggests Ford wasn’t happy with the way MOC wanted to play, perhaps didn’t help that he bought a world class 10 in that showed him up last season when he was away from England, but yet when he returns we played Toomua in the centre?.
I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted on him standing deep and passing wide when we had no momentum. Pretty much completely wasting Ford's abilities.

Ford has been excellent since Murphy took charge because Murphy plays Ford to his strengths. On the gain line passing to players on the move. We've starting scoring tries again and Ford has been one of not if our best players for the last three games. Can't say he's a senior player that's a problem.
Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.
George Ford has set up how many tries for other players in the past few weeks? He plays for the team. No question about that.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by BFG » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:17 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:13 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:07 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:09 pm


I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted on him standing deep and passing wide when we had no momentum. Pretty much completely wasting Ford's abilities.

Ford has been excellent since Murphy took charge because Murphy plays Ford to his strengths. On the gain line passing to players on the move. We've starting scoring tries again and Ford has been one of not if our best players for the last three games. Can't say he's a senior player that's a problem.
Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.
George Ford has set up how many tries for other players in the past few weeks? He plays for the team. No question about that.
You prove my point, everything is about him!

sam16111986
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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:18 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:07 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:09 pm
jamiewilkinson wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:20 pm


Agree, I feel our senior players are the problem, Murphys got the position he worked hard to get and the players have their mate in charge.
Ben Kay suggests Ford wasn’t happy with the way MOC wanted to play, perhaps didn’t help that he bought a world class 10 in that showed him up last season when he was away from England, but yet when he returns we played Toomua in the centre?.
I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted on him standing deep and passing wide when we had no momentum. Pretty much completely wasting Ford's abilities.

Ford has been excellent since Murphy took charge because Murphy plays Ford to his strengths. On the gain line passing to players on the move. We've starting scoring tries again and Ford has been one of not if our best players for the last three games. Can't say he's a senior player that's a problem.
Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.
Perhaps it was Toomua's refusal to conform to the game plan that made MOC move him straight back to 12 when Ford was available.

All you hear about Ford is how he's a consummate professional. Doubt he'd step away from the game plan and contradict his coach.

It's also a coaches job to maximise the ability of the team he has. If you've got a flyhalf that's one of the best at playing the ball on the gain line you don't stand him deep and leave him playing like a shadow of his usual self.

I think Murphy can succeed but I think he needs some more experience around him. He's not a defence coach and Brett Deacon has no real experience in the role. Brett might become a fantastic defence coach but it's time he went back to his job in the academy and an experienced head came in.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by jamiewilkinson » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:40 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:18 pm
[quote=BFG post_id=697655 time=<a href="tel:1537736863">1537736863</a> user_id=11462]
[quote=sam16111986 post_id=697652 time=<a href="tel:1537733387">1537733387</a> user_id=6978]
[quote=jamiewilkinson post_id=697641 time=<a href="tel:1537730417">1537730417</a> user_id=8430]


Agree, I feel our senior players are the problem, Murphys got the position he worked hard to get and the players have their mate in charge.
Ben Kay suggests Ford wasn’t happy with the way MOC wanted to play, perhaps didn’t help that he bought a world class 10 in that showed him up last season when he was away from England, but yet when he returns we played Toomua in the centre?.
I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted on him standing deep and passing wide when we had no momentum. Pretty much completely wasting Ford's abilities.

Ford has been excellent since Murphy took charge because Murphy plays Ford to his strengths. On the gain line passing to players on the move. We've starting scoring tries again and Ford has been one of not if our best players for the last three games. Can't say he's a senior player that's a problem.
[/quote]

Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.
[/quote]

Perhaps it was Toomua's refusal to conform to the game plan that made MOC move him straight back to 12 when Ford was available.

All you hear about Ford is how he's a consummate professional. Doubt he'd step away from the game plan and contradict his coach.

It's also a coaches job to maximise the ability of the team he has. If you've got a flyhalf that's one of the best at playing the ball on the gain line you don't stand him deep and leave him playing like a shadow of his usual self.

I think Murphy can succeed but I think he needs some more experience around him. He's not a defence coach and Brett Deacon has no real experience in the role. Brett might become a fantastic defence coach but it's time he went back to his job in the academy and an experienced head came in.
[/quote]

Mmm, We played some of our most attractive rugby whilst Toomua was at 10, why would we revert back?
Could Toomua realising no matter what he did at 10 he wouldn’t earn the shirt off Ford, play a factor of moving back to Oz.
You’ve got to get to the gain line before you can play it, last season we struggled, but Toomua’s class found ways to play it.

We haven’t had the right people around the coaching for a very long, which is why we are in this mess.

I don’t understand why Geordan said on radio leicester that they were no plans to bring in a defence coach. 1 because it was rumoured that was a recommendation by the board during the summer, and 2 because the amount of points/tries we’ve conceded.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by BFG » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:43 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:18 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:07 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:09 pm


I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted on him standing deep and passing wide when we had no momentum. Pretty much completely wasting Ford's abilities.

Ford has been excellent since Murphy took charge because Murphy plays Ford to his strengths. On the gain line passing to players on the move. We've starting scoring tries again and Ford has been one of not if our best players for the last three games. Can't say he's a senior player that's a problem.
Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.
Perhaps it was Toomua's refusal to conform to the game plan that made MOC move him straight back to 12 when Ford was available.
Perhaps, but the line "I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted" etc in your previous post says a lot to me!
That coach is gone!

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by ellis9 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:47 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:17 pm
ellis9 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:13 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:07 pm


Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.
George Ford has set up how many tries for other players in the past few weeks? He plays for the team. No question about that.
You prove my point, everything is about him!
Cobblers! Most of the play is through him but I'd expect that as he is the fly half, especially the way Tigers want to play.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by BFG » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:51 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:47 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:17 pm
ellis9 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:13 pm


George Ford has set up how many tries for other players in the past few weeks? He plays for the team. No question about that.
You prove my point, everything is about him!
Cobblers! Most of the play is through him but I'd expect that as he is the fly half, especially the way Tigers want to play.
Fourteen other players on the park.
Tigers have gone from never taking it to the line to always, there are occasions other things are the right play.
Is it the way Tigers want to play or is it the way Mr Ford wants to play!
Forgive me but didn't the last coach get the boot!
Last edited by BFG on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:32 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by Hot_Charlie » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:02 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:58 pm
We lost Ed Slater, who sure has played well for Gloucester and it was a real shame we lost him, but we got Jonny May who has since developed himself into one of the best wingers in the Northern hemisphere, arguably even World Class, cemented a place in the England team and I’m sure people on here will agree that his try was real class and speed.
People seem to forget, much as Slater has regained his 2014 form at Gloucester, he was struggling with injury whilst still with us and at the time his star had waned a little. If he hadn't moved he may have been stuck in that same rut. Good for him that he isn't. :smt001

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by sam16111986 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:03 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:43 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:18 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:07 pm


Maybe MOC wanted a 10 that plays for the team rather than a team that plays for the 10.
Seems to me that MOC was more than happy to allow Toomua off the leash and play heads up when the time was right, in fact it was some of the most creative rugby of last season.
I feel any coach is hamstrung here, interfering from above and player power.
Murphy us too in the club to succeed in my opinion.
Perhaps it was Toomua's refusal to conform to the game plan that made MOC move him straight back to 12 when Ford was available.
Perhaps, but the line "I imagine Ford wasn't happy because MOC insisted" etc in your previous post says a lot to me!
That coach is gone!
Good I'm glad the coach is gone. Mauger was sacked for less. MOC accomplished nothing in 18 months in charge. Two preseasons and we were just trucking up stationary forwards in to contact and then kicking long and aimless.

Ford had every right to be unhappy. The team were losing, his form was suffering and the fans were on the case of him and his teammates. I doubt it was a fun place to be working. Then week after week MOC wanted more of the same. Last game of the season against Sale he allowed Ford to cut loose but come the start of the season it was back trying to run through brick walls.

Ford's commitment has been excellent and if the rest of the team tackled like he did Vs Wuss we would have been better off.

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Re: Coaching Staff

Post by ellis9 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:43 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:51 pm
ellis9 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:47 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:17 pm


You prove my point, everything is about him!
Cobblers! Most of the play is through him but I'd expect that as he is the fly half, especially the way Tigers want to play.
Fourteen other players on the park.
Tigers have gone from never taking it to the line to always, there are occasions other things are the right play.
Is it the way Tigers want to play or is it the way Mr Ford wants to play!
Forgive me but didn't the last coach get the boot!
It's the way Tigers want to play. Clearly.

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