No Dan Cole in the England training squad

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westwinds31
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by westwinds31 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:25 pm

The headline is “Cipriani not in England squad”, more interest in who’s not in rather than who makes it. Has Cips been better than Ford ? No. Gloucester have beaten Saints and Bristol at home and drawn with Bath away, hardly the toughest of fixtures. You could argue they’d expect to win the two home games, even without Cipriani. Ford was very good at Wasps, footwork, passing and played right on the gain line. There’s still time for DC, but he can’t expect to jump ahead of Ford, based on 3 performances.

They’re not happy about it on Shedweb, saying there’s an anti-Glos bias from EJ.

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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by strawclearer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:39 pm

westwinds31 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:25 pm
The headline is “Cipriani not in England squad”, more interest in who’s not in rather than who makes it. Has Cips been better than Ford ? No. Gloucester have beaten Saints and Bristol at home and drawn with Bath away, hardly the toughest of fixtures. You could argue they’d expect to win the two home games, even without Cipriani. Ford was very good at Wasps, footwork, passing and played right on the gain line. There’s still time for DC, but he can’t expect to jump ahead of Ford, based on 3 performances.

They’re not happy about it on Shedweb, saying there’s an anti-Glos bias from EJ.
(My emboldens)

I'm not saying it on Twitter because I can't cope with all the "Well, you would say that, wouldn't you!" but I honestly believe Ford has performed better than Cipriani so far this season.
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by mol2 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Have to say Ford has played very well so far and am puzzled at Cole's absence.

As for Cipriani I never saw the reason for recalling him and that's not changed.
Eddie made it clear that he doesn't want off field liabilities in his squad. However there is a shortage of fly half options so presumably avoided openly dumping Cipriani when he got convicted pre-season just in case of injuries to others.

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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by Mark62 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:27 pm

It’s interesting that in his interview Jones ranks Farrell over Ford.
Number 2 son has said that Cipriani game management isn’t as good as the other 2 and other than a wonder pass in each game he’s done nothing spectacular.

As for Coley it would be nice to hear something official from Jones. Don’t expect the big man to say anything it’s not his way, but maybe if someone should bump into him in Oadby Costas they could ask.

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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by BFG » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:40 pm

Have those Cips wonder passes this season all been free plays with a penalty advantage?
I know one was and I think it was against Bristol but I'm not sure about any others, in other play under pressure I thought he was far less accurate even given new club partnerships etc.

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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by Scuttle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:09 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:39 pm
westwinds31 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:25 pm
The headline is “Cipriani not in England squad”, more interest in who’s not in rather than who makes it. Has Cips been better than Ford ? No. Gloucester have beaten Saints and Bristol at home and drawn with Bath away, hardly the toughest of fixtures. You could argue they’d expect to win the two home games, even without Cipriani. Ford was very good at Wasps, footwork, passing and played right on the gain line. There’s still time for DC, but he can’t expect to jump ahead of Ford, based on 3 performances.

They’re not happy about it on Shedweb, saying there’s an anti-Glos bias from EJ.
(My emboldens)

I'm not saying it on Twitter because I can't cope with all the "Well, you would say that, wouldn't you!" but I honestly believe Ford has performed better than Cipriani so far this season.
I would say it too......... BUT I also think Ford has been more consistently good throughout the 90 mins in our last 2 games. Cipriani has had some spectacular moves at points in the match, but not such that it paints a picture of consistency which is possibly what Jones is looking for to support a campaign (6N or WC). The consistency may well come but from the 2 matches this season I haven't seen it yet.
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ellis9
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by ellis9 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:01 pm

Scuttle wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:09 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:39 pm
westwinds31 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:25 pm
The headline is “Cipriani not in England squad”, more interest in who’s not in rather than who makes it. Has Cips been better than Ford ? No. Gloucester have beaten Saints and Bristol at home and drawn with Bath away, hardly the toughest of fixtures. You could argue they’d expect to win the two home games, even without Cipriani. Ford was very good at Wasps, footwork, passing and played right on the gain line. There’s still time for DC, but he can’t expect to jump ahead of Ford, based on 3 performances.

They’re not happy about it on Shedweb, saying there’s an anti-Glos bias from EJ.
(My emboldens)

I'm not saying it on Twitter because I can't cope with all the "Well, you would say that, wouldn't you!" but I honestly believe Ford has performed better than Cipriani so far this season.
I would say it too......... BUT I also think Ford has been more consistently good throughout the 90 mins in our last 2 games. Cipriani has had some spectacular moves at points in the match, but not such that it paints a picture of consistency which is possibly what Jones is looking for to support a campaign (6N or WC). The consistency may well come but from the 2 matches this season I haven't seen it yet.
90 minutes? :smt017 :smt023

Scuttle
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by Scuttle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:44 pm

Ha ha! Confused myself there....good spot :smt038
Maybe it just seemed like 90 mins with all the pundits waxing lyrical about the Cipriani passes.
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WhitecapTiger
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by WhitecapTiger » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:50 pm

Scuttle wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:44 pm
Maybe it just seemed like 90 mins with all the pundits waxing lyrical about the Cipriani passes.
That would be more like 120 minutes.....
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Scuttle
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by Scuttle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:01 pm

Any advances on 120..?
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by wormus » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:14 am

So two DC's missout!! Dan Cole is a surprise but good for Tigers as he does not come back with England injuries and we need him here. It could have been worse and Eddie picked Kieran Brookes for the squad. :smt043
Danny Cipriani was given a few lifelines and Jones has put him out to dry.

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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by ourla » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:43 am

wormus wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:14 am
It could have been worse and Eddie picked Kieran Brookes for the squad. :smt043
Jones is a bit bonkers but he's not completely insane.

Given how Jones works I don't think we can rule Cole or Cips out of anything just yet.

I will say this if England with the RWC there will be thousands of column inches, documentaries and books about how he managed it. Can't see it happening myself.
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Leicestertinytiger
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:27 am

Poor England squad for me. This whole year we’ve been blitzed at the breakdown, yet Jones doesn’t pick Underhill and Kvesic in the squad and we’ll have the same old slow pack with a lock at 6.

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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by jgriffin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:11 am

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:27 am
Poor England squad for me. This whole year we’ve been blitzed at the breakdown, yet Jones doesn’t pick Underhill and Kvesic in the squad and we’ll have the same old slow pack with a lock at 6.
I feel that way too.
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Re: No Dan Cole in the England training squad

Post by Will S » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:06 pm

I never got the fuss about Ford being replaced in the first place on the SA tour. In the first game we scored 39 points. It wasn't that our attack wasn't working but that our forwards were getting dominated. Danny comes in for the final game, which was a dead rubber, and we score 25 points and he is hailed as the hero. England's back play when run by Ford and Faz has been good. That's not been our problem over the past 12 months. Ford's defence is not great but he doesn't slip many tackles or hides from collisions and Danny is no J Wilkinson going backwards.

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