Ford and Youngs

[fortysix]

Both had games to forget yesterday and de Klerk was streets better then Youngs. -according to our TV pundits

SCW seems to feel it is the end of the road for these two because they are just too flaky and inconsistent, , and maybe O Connor will have them for a lot more matches than first planned for.

Anyone agree with Clive and Greenwood ?

[Rugbyflanker]

Ford isn't a good enough international FH,thats quite clear. Youngs on the other hand is just back,he wasn't ready at the end of last season and he shouldn't have toured. He's still our best 9 though. The 10,12,13 conundrum needs to be sorted quick,it's clearly not working. I would've gone Farrell,Loz,Daly ,I'm not sold on Slade either,another half a dozen tackles missed yesterday and he's got a touch of the 36 about him.

[BFG]

I'm afraid I agree with SCW and Greenwood.
They are both tried and tested and failed repeatedly.
As a Leicester supporter I think the best performances have come from a Harrison/Toomua half back partnership that was unfortunately split up just as it was bedding in quite nicely.

[Rugbyflanker]

Be careful BFG,I said the same and was crucified on here,Saint Ford can do no wrong!

[jgriffin]

I'm afraid I agree with SCW and Greenwood.
They are both tried and tested and failed repeatedly.
As a Leicester supporter I think the best performances have come from a Harrison/Toomua half back partnership that was unfortunately split up just as it was bedding in quite nicely.

Mate, that's 3 of us. People mistake individual quality for team functionality. For the same reason Fred/OW worked, neither of real international quality but in terms of team function, complemented each other well. The Harrison playing alongside To'omua became a different quality of player too, then when playing with another - sniping, adventurous, fast and accurate - a reflection of confidence and MT's quality.

[Mark62]

Put them behind the Springboks pack and would you even be having this discussion???

[BFG]

Put them behind the Springboks pack and would you even be having this discussion???

Yep we would!
The pair have been flakey for club and country, regularly capable of both very good and very bad.
They are not great players, great players hardly ever have a bad game.
From a team functionality perspective the effect of the Harrison/Toomua partnership was clearly a positive, the forwards lapped it up against Quins, Wuss and Sarries.
Harrison's delivery was quick and inviting to challenge the gain line and the more he played the more he developed around the fringes, and Toomua's leadership and creativity was on a different level to anything else we had seen.

[Rugbyflanker]

Spot on BFG,and I will go on record and say our best MF is Harrison,Toomua,Owen,Tuilagi a lot of posters seem to play the game on paper. Just parachuting the "name" in doesn't work,if only it was that simple!

[TigerS2]

I'm afraid I agree with SCW and Greenwood.
They are both tried and tested and failed repeatedly.
As a Leicester supporter I think the best performances have come from a Harrison/Toomua half back partnership that was unfortunately split up just as it was bedding in quite nicely.

Harrison and Toomua were brilliant. If only MOC would agree.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Oh here we go again!

Funny how everyone was praising the pair when England went on an almost world breaking winning streak. Youngs and Ford are a known class, the whole England team have been dire on this tour. The main culprits being Vunipola, Sinckler and Itoje who have been dreadful.

The backs on the other hand when they’ve had quality ball have looked good. No half back pairing looks great when their pack is on the back foot.

[Rugbyflanker]

Oh come on,BY kicking and passing has been dreadful at times and Ford has been his usual Graeme Hick self.

[Big Dai]

Put them behind the Springboks pack and would you even be having this discussion???

[Rugbyflanker]

Yes we would be having this discussion. There's been plenty of times for club and country when Ben has dilly dallyed at the BD and completely brought quick ball to a complete standstill,likewise Ford has been behind a dominant pack and done nothing too!

[sam16111986]

No point blaming the half backs when the pack can't do their jobs. Knock ons, stupid penalties and missed tackles. They lost contact repeatedly.

Having said that our game plan doesn't suit the players we have and our insistence on staying with it is beyond stubborn and now stupidity. Similar to what we saw with MOC this season. You put the ball in Ford's hands and give him options and we'll score tries, we saw that for Tigers when we finally changed tactics in the final game Vs Sale and for the first 20 minutes in the first test. May off the shoulder and Ford put him straight through a gap. Give him options and he'll do that all day. Youngs has no space and lumbering forwards going backwards, we could do with a kicking 9 to play territory because currently our attacking play is shocking.

Sir Clive seems to have an axe to grind. I think he'll have something negative to say whilst Jones is in charge.

[JP14]

Put them behind the Springboks pack and would you even be having this discussion???

Yep we would!
The pair have been flakey for club and country, regularly capable of both very good and very bad.
They are not great players, great players hardly ever have a bad game.
From a team functionality perspective the effect of the Harrison/Toomua partnership was clearly a positive, the forwards lapped it up against Quins, Wuss and Sarries.
Harrison's delivery was quick and inviting to challenge the gain line and the more he played the more he developed around the fringes, and Toomua's leadership and creativity was on a different level to anything else we had seen.

Jonny Wilkinson, an England great and legend, he’s had his fair share of bad games I’m sure of it. All players are human, we all have off days. Great players can put in atrocious performances sometimes, Ronan O’Gara springs to mind.