1988 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:34 pm
We are a new Tigers unfortunately, I want the old back please.
We have a soft under belly, I have no confidence in us delivering a killer blow when the opportunity arrives in a game. Last minute...3 point needed ... ball in hand.... I wouldn’t back this team and I don’t think many of them would back their team mates.
We are a shadow of the great club we once were and I can not see that ever returning with the current owners, board and staff. The winning culture is long gone.
With this said, I can not believe the prices the club expect fans to pay for tickets, surely a few more seasons of this and prices need adjusting to our current league stature 4th-7th range not champions.
What do people think?
I don't agree we are a shadow of the club we once were and I think you are a combination of a bit naive and a bit negative and a bit misty over passed glories. That is not to say things are all hunky dory. Being dumped out of the ERC at the group stage and scratching around trying to grab wins at the end of the season to squeeze into the play offs isn't where we want to be. But the support is still good and you have to give the MOC/Bakewell a bit more time. Not that this should be a measure for us but if you look Saints and Quins both Prem winners not so long back, and Bath who were in the FInal, we have not fallen that far down the pecking order. There are some definite encouraging signs. Sarries and Exeter are clearly the two we need to match domestically. And for me that's the first priority. I wouldn't disagree the belief that we are Prem winning side has taken a knock but it's too early, for me at least, that we've joined the group of also rans for the foreseeable future. But underpinning all this is that the competitiveness of the league and the game itself has progressed. It's not as easy as it once was and accepting may help with your expectations.
This. Times change.
We also need to get over the misconception that Tigers have historically been the greatest team in England. 99-02 we won 4 Premierships in a row, clearly due to the incredible group of forwards we had - that was never going to continue for ever, players retire. We won the league once in the previous 10 years. Since that we've won 4 out of 15 Premierships. Our average finishing position in the National league in the last 30 years is 3rd. Maybe rose tinted glasses are being worn when we talk about the good old glory days of the old Tigers?
The club already loses money, reducing ticket revenue will only mean less money to spend on the playing and coaching teams, meaning even less success.
Rugbyflanker wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:17 am
Great passer at times,even off the wrong hand,and kicking out of hand can be good too but never bosses a game even when his pack is on top. Offers zero running threat these days with ball in hand so is easy to defend against,he just shovels the ball on. Toomua is a far better 10 and that is fact not opinion ,the stats are there to completely back that up.
Oh, so you do need to be told what an opinion and a fact is!
Stats don't tell the whole story. Just look at the Tigers stats against Saints. If you didn't know the score you'd say Tigers won that match quite comfortably.
Your opinion is that Toomua is a better 10 than Ford, that's not a fact.
IMHO we are not that far away from Exeter or Saracens but that final 5% is always the most difficult.
I think the anti Ford brigade are wrong and need to look at the positives he brings. I would also say that had he been skipper against the Saints we would have won, as he would have taken points rather than risk a miss functioning line out which was mainly down to the hooker who was also captain.
Europe however is a different matter. Having watched Leinster dismantle Scarlets yesterday, until central contracts are introduced for the England squad, freeing up clubs budget, and controlling the amount of rugby played by those players, we will not be in position to compete with the Irish or cash rich French sides.
Final point dips happen to all clubs, next seasons challenge cup is likely to include Clermont
Mark62 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:16 am
IMHO we are not that far away from Exeter or Saracens but that final 5% is always the most difficult.
I think the anti Ford brigade are wrong and need to look at the positives he brings. I would also say that had he been skipper against the Saints we would have won, as he would have taken points rather than risk a miss functioning line out which was mainly down to the hooker who was also captain.
Europe however is a different matter. Having watched Leinster dismantle Scarlets yesterday, until central contracts are introduced for the England squad, freeing up clubs budget, and controlling the amount of rugby played by those players, we will not be in position to compete with the Irish or cash rich French sides.
Final point dips happen to all clubs, next seasons challenge cup is likely to include Clermont
Central contracts? No thanks!
It's one season where English sides haven't done well in the Champions Cup. We don't need central contracts.
Mark62 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:16 am
Europe however is a different matter. Having watched Leinster dismantle Scarlets yesterday, until central contracts are introduced for the England squad, freeing up clubs budget, and controlling the amount of rugby played by those players, we will not be in position to compete with the Irish or cash rich French sides.
English clubs not competing with the Irish and French? Much as I hate mentioning their name, Saracens. And a few seasons back no Pro 12 sides got to the quarters. Things fluctuate. That's sport.
Good points made, yes first season we haven’t done well and Leinster to my mind will be the eventual winners, but they also dismantled both Exeter and Saracens with relative ease.
As someone has said things do go in circles just look at the French league for that
The fortunes of all big clubs will fluctuate, come what may.
Take my local club Toulouse, for example. Last season the club failed to qualify for the end of season play-offs for the first time in 40 something years and didn't qualify for this season's European Champions' Cup. For a club of Toulouse's standing, that's a disaster, but they've improved this season and although they probably won't be champions this season they're back in the top four and will play top flight European rugby next season.
The title of this thread "New Tigers", is a misnomer. "Changing Tigers", would be more appropriate as it would be for any club that evolves with and adapts to the changing demands of modern rugby.
I'd go further than the OP on the topic and suggest that it's the new England rugby.
Blown away in Europe, the big clumsy clots have had rings run around them.
Sarries and more recently Exeter have turned the Premiership into a slugfest with some of the least entertaining rugby you could ever wish not to see, but we have seen this year that only goes so far, like a big junior who can't bully the seniors!
BFG wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:52 am
I'd go further than the OP on the topic and suggest that it's the new England rugby.
Blown away in Europe, the big clumsy clots have had rings run around them.
Sarries and more recently Exeter have turned the Premiership into a slugfest with some of the least entertaining rugby you could ever wish not to see, but we have seen this year that only goes so far, like a big junior who can't bully the seniors!
I wouldn't agree in part. It's a question of balance in sides and also of the inconsistencies in refereeing. If you are playing in the AP currently, I would agree that the balance has shifted too far from the skills of good back rows and backs in general, and too much towards grinding dominance and territorial rugby. However this is as much a reflection of law interpretation as coaching preference. When you are routinely penalised for fair competition against unfair diving etc, there is little recourse except to duller rugby. When you are used to different interpretations, adjustment is not as easy as glib 'play to the ref' would have it. It doesn't help when a Welsh ref is considered neutral to an Irish side etc.
There is also the issue of attrition - it makes a huge difference to how sides can play if an AP club is up against a Pro14 side that has the funding and the league that can permit players only playing half as many games. This is not my opinion, it has been voiced on TV by DOC, BOD and several others who have experience of both scenarios.
So I would argue, yes you are right in blaming the 'English' game, but there are several factors at work. I worry that MOC may go too far down that road, and that of our two decent 1st team 10s, only one is capable of playing the game required to take us to the top.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
He's played most of the season at 12 so those stats predominantly come from inside centre. You can't compare the stats in 2 different positions. You may as well say that Ben Youngs is a better hooker that his brother as Ben hasn't made any lineout errors or had a scrum against the head against him.
I was talking about FH!! He's surpassed George already in the little time he's played there and if we hadn't have messed about with Joe he would be miles in front!
Rugbyflanker wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:39 pm
I was talking about FH!! He's surpassed George already in the little time he's played there and if we hadn't have messed about with Joe he would be miles in front!
As I've already said, stats don't tell the whole story.
Presumably you would say that Tigers were better than Saints last week?
It would also be interesting to see where you get those stats from.
ESPN. The same site that says George has scored one solitary try in his whole Tigers career,both stints! An absolute joke if true. I certainly can't remember any,i struggle to remember a clean break or beaten defender let alone a try!
