Stephen18 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:32 pm
As good a job as eddie is doing for the life of me there are times i just can work out his decison making, the insistence on sticking with player who are past their best and no longer the best in their position anymore and are getting to the point of being to old for he world cup squad ie hartley, brown, haskell. Now add to that calling up wigglesworth at 34 and ignoring dan robson the form 9 for the last 2 seasons even ben spencer who keeps wigglesworth out the team at sarries would be better both only 25, surely bens injury has shown him he needs more options there for next year and they need international game time.
Personally, I'd prefer Dan Robson, but Wigglesworth is a pragmatic and sensible choice.
Dan Robson is the more exciting prospect - there's no question about it. Wigglesworth brings a solid, more experienced game.
Eddie knows what he's doing.
Blimey, I agree with Roly!
I do think Jones second mistake has now been highlighted, and that is the recent inclusion of so many 10's, Smith in particular who was never going to play instead of trying to integrate a third up and coming scrum half, maybe Dan Robson or maybe even someone like Ben Spencer, whichever is fancied!
England are constantly going back to type, sensible yes, but limited in my opinion!
Last edited by BFG on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
mol2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
Not convinced the Wigglesworth call up is a good one.
Capable at best. A punt on a youngster would have been my choice given that Care is experienced although less of a game manager than Youngs so I suspect Care will be on the bench and be used as an impact player when the game breaks up.
Don't understand why some think Cole isn't a shoe in starter. It may not look spectacular but as a scrummager he saps the opposition props like no other and is there at the breakdown match in match out. Not the spectacular runs of some but he does the core skills better than any other tight head in world rugby. If our pack had been half decent in recent times we would have seen just how effective he is. It doesn't seem so obvious when you have a lightweight hooker and utility locks behind you. Perhaps had Tigers had "ordinary" props the weaknesses at lock and hooker would have been addressed a long time ago.
They say he gives away too many penalties - again our lack of quality back rows has often seen him try and do a bit of the 7s role. Not ideal but again a reflection of our pack.
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
mol2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
Not convinced the Wigglesworth call up is a good one.
Capable at best. A punt on a youngster would have been my choice given that Care is experienced although less of a game manager than Youngs so I suspect Care will be on the bench and be used as an impact player when the game breaks up.
Don't understand why some think Cole isn't a shoe in starter. It may not look spectacular but as a scrummager he saps the opposition props like no other and is there at the breakdown match in match out. Not the spectacular runs of some but he does the core skills better than any other tight head in world rugby. If our pack had been half decent in recent times we would have seen just how effective he is. It doesn't seem so obvious when you have a lightweight hooker and utility locks behind you. Perhaps had Tigers had "ordinary" props the weaknesses at lock and hooker would have been addressed a long time ago.
They say he gives away too many penalties - again our lack of quality back rows has often seen him try and do a bit of the 7s role. Not ideal but again a reflection of our pack.
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
I wonder when Willi Heinz is eligible?
The 6N, especially in a match v Wales, is not the time to 'take a punt' on anyone.
Eddie Jones has two full (non 6N) international windows between now and the World Cup to 'take a punt' on someone if he needs to. There are probably two or three ahead of Vellacot so why would Jones risk it.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.
mol2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
Not convinced the Wigglesworth call up is a good one.
Capable at best. A punt on a youngster would have been my choice given that Care is experienced although less of a game manager than Youngs so I suspect Care will be on the bench and be used as an impact player when the game breaks up.
Don't understand why some think Cole isn't a shoe in starter. It may not look spectacular but as a scrummager he saps the opposition props like no other and is there at the breakdown match in match out. Not the spectacular runs of some but he does the core skills better than any other tight head in world rugby. If our pack had been half decent in recent times we would have seen just how effective he is. It doesn't seem so obvious when you have a lightweight hooker and utility locks behind you. Perhaps had Tigers had "ordinary" props the weaknesses at lock and hooker would have been addressed a long time ago.
They say he gives away too many penalties - again our lack of quality back rows has often seen him try and do a bit of the 7s role. Not ideal but again a reflection of our pack.
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
I wonder when Willi Heinz is eligible?
The 6N, especially in a match v Wales, is not the time to 'take a punt' on anyone.
Eddie Jones has two full (non 6N) international windows between now and the World Cup to 'take a punt' on someone if he needs to. There are probably two or three ahead of Vellacot so why would Jones risk it.
Because he is Eddie Jones and as he has proved in the past if you are good enough ....
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
I wonder when Willi Heinz is eligible?
The 6N, especially in a match v Wales, is not the time to 'take a punt' on anyone.
Eddie Jones has two full (non 6N) international windows between now and the World Cup to 'take a punt' on someone if he needs to. There are probably two or three ahead of Vellacot so why would Jones risk it.
Because he is Eddie Jones and as he has proved in the past if you are good enough ....
Er....so maybe, just maybe, they aren't good enough?
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
I wonder when Willi Heinz is eligible?
[/quote]
Isnt willi heinz 31 years old id hope if he does bring in a 3 scrum half theyd be younger than that with an eye to the future, i know ben youngs is 28 so got a good number of years but care also 31, id be hoping for someone 25 and under for now, with someone whos about 19/20 as one of these apparentices like smith
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
I wonder when Willi Heinz is eligible?
[/quote]
Isnt willi heinz 31 years old id hope if he does bring in a 3 scrum half theyd be younger than that with an eye to the future, i know ben youngs is 28 so got a good number of years but care also 31, id be hoping for someone 25 and under for now, with someone whos about 19/20 as one of these apparentices like smith
[/quote]
we are talking a stop gap to get us through the 6 nations until BY returns
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
I wonder when Willi Heinz is eligible?
Isnt willi heinz 31 years old id hope if he does bring in a 3 scrum half theyd be younger than that with an eye to the future, i know ben youngs is 28 so got a good number of years but care also 31, id be hoping for someone 25 and under for now, with someone whos about 19/20 as one of these apparentices like smith
[/quote]
we are talking a stop gap to get us through the 6 nations until BY returns
[/quote]
Which is what jones is doing with wiggleworth whos got international experence, but past his best, the arguement is he needs an actual 2nd choice with international experience and the ability to change a game should this happen next year before the world cup with the stand outs being dan robson, ben spencer or another young scrum half who at least has champions cup rugby.
I agree, I would have gone with young blood, maybe take a punt on Ben Vellacott.
I wonder when Willi Heinz is eligible?
Isnt willi heinz 31 years old id hope if he does bring in a 3 scrum half theyd be younger than that with an eye to the future, i know ben youngs is 28 so got a good number of years but care also 31, id be hoping for someone 25 and under for now, with someone whos about 19/20 as one of these apparentices like smith
we are talking a stop gap to get us through the 6 nations until BY returns
[/quote]
Which is what jones is doing with wiggleworth whos got international experence, but past his best, the arguement is he needs an actual 2nd choice with international experience and the ability to change a game should this happen next year before the world cup with the stand outs being dan robson, ben spencer or another young scrum half who at least has champions cup rugby.
[/quote]
Reasons for not picking Willi Heinz for England this 6N:
1) Other scrum halves are better - Wigglesworth being one of them.
2) He has zero international experience, unlike Wigglesworth.
3) He's only played with one member of the England squad before (May), so would need time to get used to the other players, unlike Wigglesworth.
4) He isn't eligible to play for England.
IMO Wigglesworth is the tried option for the Wales match. England will be looking to take the Welsh pack apart and also chase tactical kicks - RW is a steady performer used to the cauldron. Introduce new faces as the 6N goes on, maybe, but more realistically, get into a position to win it first. Wales need their balloon deflating after being handed a match by Scotland.
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jgriffin wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:46 pm
IMO Wigglesworth is the tried option for the Wales match. England will be looking to take the Welsh pack apart and also chase tactical kicks - RW is a steady performer used to the cauldron. Introduce new faces as the 6N goes on, maybe, but more realistically, get into a position to win it first. Wales need their balloon deflating after being handed a match by Scotland.
jgriffin wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:46 pm
IMO Wigglesworth is the tried option for the Wales match. England will be looking to take the Welsh pack apart and also chase tactical kicks - RW is a steady performer used to the cauldron. Introduce new faces as the 6N goes on, maybe, but more realistically, get into a position to win it first. Wales need their balloon deflating after being handed a match by Scotland.
Correct!!
+1 . A seasoned campaigner with the nounce to see space and use it exceptionally well
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat
I thought that would be the team, i had hoped watson would be switch to full back and nowell to start, but its eddies tried and tested team pretty much.
I get peoples view on steady experienced wigglesworth i just worry it going to be a step back for england to the days of just defending a lead with the subs kicking for territory rather than what its become over the past couple of years where we’ve blown teams away in the last 20-15mins of a games scoring a high number of our tries with pace of the bench.
Last edited by Stephen18 on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
. A seasoned campaigner with the nounce to see space and use it exceptionally well