Now there's the subject of a thread that'll attract loads of comment!!!BengalTiger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm
.. the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
Tackle in the air
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Re: Tackle in the air
Semper in excretia
Re: Tackle in the air
This isnt a new law change nor do I still think it's a hot topic in the game, unlike kicking or diving through the ruck. Players have adapted to this rule (last season and this season) incredibly well. It should be both instinctive and tactics not to tackle a player in the air, it almost doesnt matter, just wait until their feet touch the floor then lay them flat and ideally turn the ball over. Malouf nearly came a cropper on this against Exeter, he should have waited for the tackle rather than arriving late to try and compete for the ball; it was a penalty at most.GETHIN EXILE wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:25 pm Ok this is to start a discussion as it seems that any contact with a man who jumps into the air to catch a ball is leading to at least a penalty unless both players are in the air competing for the ball. I suggest that we outlaw jumping into the air to field high kicks so that the only question becomes had the payer caught the ball before he was tackled. How do others feel about this?
Re: Tackle in the air
Where's the "like" button!BengalTiger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm It is a bit of a nonsense to me, I recall Alesana Tuilagi was cited and banned for raising his knee while being tackled during the word cup as it was judged dangerous, but a player jumping full tilt with a raised forward knee is given a penalty if he contacts one of the opposition! explain that in a rational world!
It is gaining an unfair advantage through a dangerous tactic so should be discouraged.
Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
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Re: Tackle in the air
The game moves on, life moves on and we have normalisation of deviance. See also line out cheating.Mark62 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:51 pm The game moves on gents, there is nothing wrong with jumping for the ball, the danger comes from the challenger not jumping or not jumping to challenge. We are talking about 1 incident in a game of 80 minutes that was caused by another players inexperince.
There were no other incidents as such that I'm aware of this weekend
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Re: Tackle in the air
I watched the Newcastle v Liverpool soccer match during which a player leaping for the ball led with his leg into the shoulder/head of a standing player in rugby the standing player would have incurred the penalty in soccer it was the airborne man for dangerous play.
If Malouf had jumped and challenged for the ball there would probably have been no penalty but there may have been two injured players. Watching at the ground I thought a clear yellow, watching the TV recording I think maybe the ref and TMO made the right decision. It is a strange law where the consequence, even if an inadvertent offence, decides the punishment. We can all think of cases where the tackler has deliberately gone under a man in the air and also when a man has jumped high but made contact with a player who just happened to be in the way with no obligation to move, the likely outcome is in both instances is a yellow card for the man on the ground or a red if the guy lands head first.
If Malouf had jumped and challenged for the ball there would probably have been no penalty but there may have been two injured players. Watching at the ground I thought a clear yellow, watching the TV recording I think maybe the ref and TMO made the right decision. It is a strange law where the consequence, even if an inadvertent offence, decides the punishment. We can all think of cases where the tackler has deliberately gone under a man in the air and also when a man has jumped high but made contact with a player who just happened to be in the way with no obligation to move, the likely outcome is in both instances is a yellow card for the man on the ground or a red if the guy lands head first.
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Re: Tackle in the air
When chasing a high kick the attacking player is trying to visualise where the ball will land and a lot of the time, like Malouf on Saturday, realises that they need to slow down at the last minute because the defender has jumped forward to take the ball resulting in a collision while the catcher is still in the air. I would like to see vertical jumps from a standing start to be allowed but running jumps to deemed dangerous. This makes the referees job simpler and all players would be able to time tackles better as the catcher would have to stop before jumping.
Re: Tackle in the air
Not at all. The player landed on one foot but was unbalanced and fell on to his back. Had he landed on his back directly it would have been a yellow, on his head a red. The law/directive is quite clear. And the ref was spot on.BengalTiger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
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Re: Tackle in the air
Which law is that? this one:-Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play; sanction penalty kick!ourla wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:55 pmNot at all. The player landed on one foot but was unbalanced and fell on to his back. Had he landed on his back directly it would have been a yellow, on his head a red. The law/directive is quite clear. And the ref was spot on.BengalTiger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
The law is clear it is the IRB that has muddied the water, they are not prepared to amend the laws but issue directives and guidelines, this is what leads to confusion.
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Re: Tackle in the air
I have been arguing this for years and have indeed raised this very subject on here before.
The issue to me is the deliberate flying through the air with knees or studs leading. Meanwhile the poor devil chasing cannot even compete without fear of sanction thereby rendering this element of the game a non contact sport.
Some years ago now the luckless Cross was Red carded in the very act of being stretchered unconcious from the field whilst no doubt the Welsh fullback (can't recall his name) must have sniggered as he realised he had just won the test for his country in the first minute of the game!
From that very moment I knew that this was yet another ridiculous change of law interpretation that has made the modern game frankly ludicrous.
I noticed by the way the young Welsh ref in the Edinburgh game on Friday, made a very good decision when a guy was kneed in the head by a flying catcher and when they did the usual claiming the man on the ground at fault he clearly said "no you came into his space"
Well done him .. a rare moment of sense!
The issue to me is the deliberate flying through the air with knees or studs leading. Meanwhile the poor devil chasing cannot even compete without fear of sanction thereby rendering this element of the game a non contact sport.
Some years ago now the luckless Cross was Red carded in the very act of being stretchered unconcious from the field whilst no doubt the Welsh fullback (can't recall his name) must have sniggered as he realised he had just won the test for his country in the first minute of the game!
From that very moment I knew that this was yet another ridiculous change of law interpretation that has made the modern game frankly ludicrous.
I noticed by the way the young Welsh ref in the Edinburgh game on Friday, made a very good decision when a guy was kneed in the head by a flying catcher and when they did the usual claiming the man on the ground at fault he clearly said "no you came into his space"
Well done him .. a rare moment of sense!
Re: Tackle in the air
"like" again.
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Re: Tackle in the air
It still irritates me that Thompstone was carded in the incident with the flying North!mightymouse wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:20 pm The issue to me is the deliberate flying through the air with knees or studs leading. Meanwhile the poor devil chasing cannot even compete without fear of sanction thereby rendering this element of the game a non contact sport.
I noticed by the way the young Welsh ref in the Edinburgh game on Friday, made a very good decision when a guy was kneed in the head by a flying catcher and when they did the usual claiming the man on the ground at fault he clearly said "no you came into his space"
Well done him .. a rare moment of sense!
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Re: Tackle in the air
Its getting to the point where if there is a flying jumper, everyone else has to run out of the way to avoid him landing on top of you and you getting carded because this reckless player has taken his own safety into hand and runs, jumps and lands on you! Ban running jumping and only allow standing jumping, it would stop a lot of injuries, one day someones going to end up with a broken neck!
Re: Tackle in the air
It's the sanctions we are talking about. The ref gave the penalty. But for foul play there will be sanctions according to the severity of the offence. There is no confusion in this case. The referee stated it at the time so that there was no confusion.BengalTiger wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:01 pmWhich law is that? this one:-Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play; sanction penalty kick!ourla wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:55 pmNot at all. The player landed on one foot but was unbalanced and fell on to his back. Had he landed on his back directly it would have been a yellow, on his head a red. The law/directive is quite clear. And the ref was spot on.BengalTiger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
The law is clear it is the IRB that has muddied the water, they are not prepared to amend the laws but issue directives and guidelines, this is what leads to confusion.
Re: Tackle in the air
If you hit a player in the air then it rightly should be a card.
If you compete then no penalty.
If you jump with knee up it should be a penalty.
If you do a "long jump" like North then you should be penalised for preventing fair competition and or stopping them getting close enough to make an immediate tackle. As it stands the player effectively gets jumped on but gets penalised. It would be difficult to determine what's jumping up and what's jumping forward.
If you compete then no penalty.
If you jump with knee up it should be a penalty.
If you do a "long jump" like North then you should be penalised for preventing fair competition and or stopping them getting close enough to make an immediate tackle. As it stands the player effectively gets jumped on but gets penalised. It would be difficult to determine what's jumping up and what's jumping forward.
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Re: Tackle in the air
It's simple if the player jumps up from a standing start then if there is contact before he lands then it's a penalty with possible further sanctions depending on the situation. If a player runs and jumps then he gives away a penalty if he contacts a stationary player. Attacking kicks would be aimed to land behind the covering defender thus making it afoot race to the ball