The Return Of Ford

[JP14]

Ford was at his absolute best in Argentina and put that against his partnership with Ben Youngs and the fact that he will try harder for us because we didn't coup and sack his dad. I think HE WILL be worth it.

[jgriffin]

Re-watch Tigers loss to Bath at Twickenham last season and see if you still think we haven't upgraded with Ford coming in.

If you were there, you would realise Tiger's failure to sub as defence wilted in 30 odd degrees temperature, around 60 mins, significantly cut the defence line speed and width. After that Ford was allowed to run laterally as well as forward, and outrun the labouring defence.
Having said that, we were about 3 inches from a win, the amount JPP needed to be taller to make the interception.
I saw it as no coincidence that MOC was back, as subbing was an issue (as was promoting young players) when he was coach before.

Everything that went wrong when MOC was last here was his fault but the three premiership titles we won were nothing to do with him

Typical whataboutery, not referring to the case in point. Assume you weren't at the match and realising the temperature in the stadium was brutal.

[jgriffin]

JGriffin everybody has their opinion of course, but I am staggered that you could even think that Ford was not impressive for the full 80 in that game against Bath. When I was there I was really impressed with his manipulation of the defence, his timing of passes etc - it caused us problems all day. I'd suggest a rewatch but let's be honest who has time for that.

I am though a huge Burns fan and am gutted he has gone. I'm reserving judgement on who got the better deal until the season starts, but Fords performances at the back end of last season and in Argentina make me think he could potentially be a step up even from Freddie.

And re: MOC in that game - correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he had only just arrived and was maintaining a watching brief for that game?

1 I did not say Ford was rubbish, he was constantly probing, BUT I pointed out that we nullified his threat until......which is exactly what sam 1234 is saying above. We were on top for a lot of the game UNTIL.......I do wonder sometimes....
2 I - perhaps unfairly - drew comparison with the many times several seasons ago when those were issues. Those who were around will know there WERE issues, debated on this forum.

[TheRock]

If you were there, you would realise Tiger's failure to sub as defence wilted in 30 odd degrees temperature, around 60 mins, significantly cut the defence line speed and width. After that Ford was allowed to run laterally as well as forward, and outrun the labouring defence.
Having said that, we were about 3 inches from a win, the amount JPP needed to be taller to make the interception.
I saw it as no coincidence that MOC was back, as subbing was an issue (as was promoting young players) when he was coach before.

Everything that went wrong when MOC was last here was his fault but the three premiership titles we won were nothing to do with him

Typical whataboutery, not referring to the case in point. Assume you weren't at the match and realising the temperature in the stadium was brutal.

If you read what I said I didn't disagree that it was hot or that subs needed to be made.

I was simply pointing out how you constantly make references to problems in the team during MOC's first reign saying it was his fault but previously when I mentioned the success we had during that period you said that was down to the players and cockers.
As head coach he was not only responsible for the things that went wrong which you constantly point out, but also the 3 premiership titles. You can't just pick and choose and say the people you liked were responsible for all the success and the guy you didn't like caused anything that wasn't right, unless of course you were part of the dressing room at the time.

[Noddy555]

Yes I agree that the Ford/Burns Saga is long past it's sell by date and should be buried along with other discussions such as Petersen, Betham etcetera. We need to look at Tigers going forward not be maudling about the past.

[tigercaspian]

Yes I agree that the Ford/Burns Saga is long past it's sell by date and should be buried along with other discussions such as Petersen, Betham etcetera. We need to look at Tigers going forward not be maudling about the past.

Well said, Noddy:100% agree.

[chewbacca]

New season, new head coach, new team. Lets give them our support and forget about what might have beens. Im excited by the prospect of watching our backs ball in hand.

[johnthegriff]

Rare occasion I agree with Noddy, the past is the past nothing can be done about it now, the future excites me, we will have learned the lessons and move on with high expectation; and we will do the same next season!

[jgriffin]

Last time, now looking to the future. When others were eulogising MOC as a saviour I wrote that the success was also down to Cockers and the team. You can't pick and choose........

[BFG]

Burns definitely improved at Tigers and became a fans favourite, quite rightly given his commitment to the cause. He kept his maverick side, worked on his kicking from the tee and also from hand, whilst also improving his game management. Ford, in my view is way ahead of Freddie though. Ford can't tackle like Wilkinson and probably never will, given his frame, plus his kicking percentage won't end up anywhere near Johnny's, although it's improving. Ford however, is arguably the best in the world at bring others into the game, in particular his delayed pass is up there in the world game, again in my view. His performances, albeit two games in Argentina were world class and if he can maintain that, we are in for a treat, both at Tigers and for England.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to cast doubt over Ford's ability on the front foot on a firm pitch in the sunshine.
It's when that wind and rain starts and that green grass turns brown
That's why at this moment Farrell is the most consistent English 10, and with an all weather pack to match.
Toomua and Manu will be very important IMO as a second playmaker/carrier out.

[Cagey Tiger]

Burns definitely improved at Tigers and became a fans favourite, quite rightly given his commitment to the cause. He kept his maverick side, worked on his kicking from the tee and also from hand, whilst also improving his game management. Ford, in my view is way ahead of Freddie though. Ford can't tackle like Wilkinson and probably never will, given his frame, plus his kicking percentage won't end up anywhere near Johnny's, although it's improving. Ford however, is arguably the best in the world at bring others into the game, in particular his delayed pass is up there in the world game, again in my view. His performances, albeit two games in Argentina were world class and if he can maintain that, we are in for a treat, both at Tigers and for England.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to cast doubt over Ford's ability on the front foot on a firm pitch in the sunshine.
It's when that wind and rain starts and that green grass turns brown
That's why at this moment Farrell is the most consistent English 10, and with an all weather pack to match.
Toomua and Manu will be very important IMO as a second playmaker/carrier out.

I would strongly suggest that the weather and pitch conditions have very little bearing. George is an excellent kicker out of hand. I remember one game played in filthy conditions where he gave a masterclass in kicking for field position that Ronan O'Gara would have been proud of. However, he wasn't under a lot of pressure. Some but not a lot.

[BFG]

Burns definitely improved at Tigers and became a fans favourite, quite rightly given his commitment to the cause. He kept his maverick side, worked on his kicking from the tee and also from hand, whilst also improving his game management. Ford, in my view is way ahead of Freddie though. Ford can't tackle like Wilkinson and probably never will, given his frame, plus his kicking percentage won't end up anywhere near Johnny's, although it's improving. Ford however, is arguably the best in the world at bring others into the game, in particular his delayed pass is up there in the world game, again in my view. His performances, albeit two games in Argentina were world class and if he can maintain that, we are in for a treat, both at Tigers and for England.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to cast doubt over Ford's ability on the front foot on a firm pitch in the sunshine.
It's when that wind and rain starts and that green grass turns brown
That's why at this moment Farrell is the most consistent English 10, and with an all weather pack to match.
Toomua and Manu will be very important IMO as a second playmaker/carrier out.

I would strongly suggest that the weather and pitch conditions have very little bearing. George is an excellent kicker out of hand. I remember one game played in filthy conditions where he gave a masterclass in kicking for field position that Ronan O'Gara would have been proud of. However, he wasn't under a lot of pressure. Some but not a lot.

Yes nothing wrong with his kicking out of hand, almost too good when that extra length lands short of touch as it thuds into the brown stuff.
Beyond that when it's easier to play rush defence without the bar of soap and when the sticky brown stuff takes that extra yard of pace away and where Farrell comes into his own IMO, and an area where Burns was much improved recently.
Ford still has to rectify this IMO as he is prone to passing the buck in those conditions and his side getting stuck in the mud, but I'm sure he will be a success and even more so with outs like Toomua and Manu.
That's the thing here, we are talking about Ford and Burns like messiahs when really it's the other two in the middle where it will ultimately matter most!