We need to invest more money in the team! - None available

[spongebillybob1]

I think we need to stop building this "amazing" stadium (which looked pretty empty yesterday) and invest more on better coaches, better equipment etc. Actually get some proven coaches in! Vern cotter is leaving Scotland after 6N get him in, he's done great with Scottish team!

[mol2]

Assuming there is money to invest in players.

If the building works are funded by borrowing rather than cash, that borrowing can't be used to fund player salaries.

Unlike a capital asset like a stand with catering or entertainment earnings over the long term,
No bank will lend £1000000 to play players' wages at the end of a 1 or 2 year contract the money is gone and no long term asset to secure the loan against.

It may well be that too much free capital has been invested in the stands (to keep borrowing down) and that has left too little cash for players.

I agree more capacity is not needed. Indeed it has possibly hit season ticket sales. If you can get tickets for the matches you can attend, why pay for games you can't attend. In the past you had to have a season ticket to be sure of your ticket.

[Old Hob]

Ben Kay made several good points in Saturday's Times about the current TV set-up for the Champions Cup. It is a condition of the deal that all games are shown live hence the ludicrous kick off times. He was particularly scathing about the 5:30 pm Sunday kick offs as we all are. He says that 1nstead of the 4000 tickets Munster would usually have sold for a Saturday game they actually sold 400. He also notes that bar sales and so on were down as people were going to work the next day. He says that Tigers' revenue was £300, 000 lower than expected. TV money is not an unalloyed benefit.

[spongebillybob1]

Assuming there is money to invest in players.

If the building works are funded by borrowing rather than cash, that borrowing can't be used to fund player salaries.

Unlike a capital asset like a stand with catering or entertainment earnings over the long term,
No bank will lend £1000000 to play players' wages at the end of a 1 or 2 year contract the money is gone and no long term asset to secure the loan against.

It may well be that too much free capital has been invested in the stands (to keep borrowing down) and that has left too little cash for players.

I agree more capacity is not needed. Indeed it has possibly hit season ticket sales. If you can get tickets for the matches you can attend, why pay for games you can't attend. In the past you had to have a season ticket to be sure of your ticket.

Yeah I agree with a lot of what you said but at the same time we saved £8 million to spend on the robin hood stand. We can put some more of that money into on field investment. We are trying to buy that car park to build a hotel?! An unnecessary expense! Why do we need a hotel?? Invest in the team!

[Sabre Tiger]

I'm afraid it's time to splash the cash and buy in some really top players. We have solid foundations and if Tigers went bust then likely as not the rest of the Premiership will have gone with us. We play too safe financially and that is why we are where we are...plain and simple. Thousands of empty seats last night as it was a dead game for us..probably hundreds of thousands of pounds in lost revenue. Granted Wasps and Sarries are in the red but they are streets ahead of us at the moment. We can't even hold on to Owen Williams..no disrespect to Freddie Burns but Williams would have probably avoid the nil on the scoreboard.

[Tigersunited]

We saved £8m to spend on the RHS? What do you mean sponge bob?

In terms of top class players, we are spending up to the cap so it's not splashing the cash just spending it on different players? Surely?

[spongebillybob1]

We saved £8m to spend on the RHS? What do you mean sponge bob?

In terms of top class players, we are spending up to the cap so it's not splashing the cash just spending it on different players? Surely?

I mean we saved £8m that's how much it cost, that means investment from sponsors! Which should go on players and training facilities. That's why it took so long for the robin hood stand to be built from the big stand! I say hold back a few years on further development and invest on good coaches and backroom staff.

[Tigersunited]

I agree we don't need any more development if the ground. I think we will have borrowed the money to build the stand though.

[h's dad]

We saved £8m to spend on the RHS? What do you mean sponge bob?

In terms of top class players, we are spending up to the cap so it's not splashing the cash just spending it on different players? Surely?

I mean we saved £8m that's how much it cost, that means investment from sponsors! Which should go on players and training facilities. That's why it took so long for the robin hood stand to be built from the big stand! I say hold back a few years on further development and invest on good coaches and backroom staff.

It means borrowing from banks. How can you agree with mol2 when you don't grasp what he is saying?

[WhitecapTiger]

I'm afraid it's time to splash the cash and buy in some really top players.

What Cash?

Which Players?

We reportedly already spend up to the cap - for what that is worth these days.

With respect, despite some shocking performances of late, we DO have some top players (on their day - which admittedly have been few and far between of late). Our issues appear to go deeper than individual players.

It may be that the only way we can achieve your aspiration is to have a wholesale clear out of the squad (not necessarily a bad thing but I'd guard against total destruction) and then "splash the cash and buy in some really top players" but, that may (would probably) inevitably result in a smaller squad (more money to each 'really top player').....then our 'really top players' gain an injury or two, because even 'really top players' get injured (Matt Toomua), and then we're in worse trouble IMHO.

[spongebillybob1]

We saved £8m to spend on the RHS? What do you mean sponge bob?

In terms of top class players, we are spending up to the cap so it's not splashing the cash just spending it on different players? Surely?

I mean we saved £8m that's how much it cost, that means investment from sponsors! Which should go on players and training facilities. That's why it took so long for the robin hood stand to be built from the big stand! I say hold back a few years on further development and invest on good coaches and backroom staff.

It means borrowing from banks. How can you agree with mol2 when you don't grasp what he is saying?

We saved money from investors eg catepillar who financed the buildings we borrowed very little from the banks! Where do you think the money tigers make on ticket sale goes? Players/coaches/backroom staff wages, the rest is saves into a little pot which a hefty amount was put into the stand along with the caterpillar money!!! If you don't get that!

Tigers are one of the few clubs that actually makes a profit. Other teams are in a mountain of debt, like wasps and sarries where are not.

That is why there was about a ten year gap in building the stands if we had a loan we could have just rebuilt the whole thing in about 2 seasons!

[spongebillybob1]

Can I just point out I never said a thing about needing new players. The players we have SHOULD be good enough! What we actually need is some good experienced coaches who actually know what they are doing. Aaron maguer had only been coaching for about 3 year before he came to tigers! We need experience! Like I said to begin with Vern Cotter from Scotland.

[h's dad]

<<quote="Tigersunited">>We saved £8m to spend on the RHS? What do you mean sponge bob?

In terms of top class players, we are spending up to the cap so it's not splashing the cash just spending it on different players? Surely?<</quote>>

I mean we saved £8m that's how much it cost, that means investment from sponsors! Which should go on players and training facilities. That's why it took so long for the robin hood stand to be built from the big stand! I say hold back a few years on further development and invest on good coaches and backroom staff.

It means borrowing from banks. How can you agree with mol2 when you don't grasp what he is saying?

We saved money from investors eg catepillar who financed the buildings we borrowed very little from the banks! Where do you think the money tigers make on ticket sale goes? Players/coaches/backroom staff wages, the rest is saves into a little pot which a hefty amount was put into the stand along with the caterpillar money!!! If you don't get that!

Tigers are one of the few clubs that actually makes a profit. Other teams are in a mountain of debt, like wasps and sarries where are not.

That is why there was about a ten year gap in building the stands if we had a loan we could have just rebuilt the whole thing in about 2 seasons!

Have a look at the accounts. Try reading mol2's post again. When he and I agree on money issues there really isn't much for anybody with much understanding to argue about.

[ABClub]

Can I just point out I never said a thing about needing new players. The players we have SHOULD be good enough! What we actually need is some good experienced coaches who actually know what they are doing. Aaron maguer had only been coaching for about 3 year before he came to tigers! We need experience! Like I said to begin with Vern Cotter from Scotland.

Cotter is going to Montpellier on a 3 year deal for 'more than 3 million Euros', so around £2.5 million over 3 years.

[h's dad]

Can I just point out I never said a thing about needing new players. The players we have SHOULD be good enough! What we actually need is some good experienced coaches who actually know what they are doing. Aaron maguer had only been coaching for about 3 year before he came to tigers! We need experience! Like I said to begin with Vern Cotter from Scotland.

Nobody is saying that we don’t need good, experienced coaches (all right, some are but I’m not one of them).
You can’t say hold back on capital investment and put the money closer to the game when you’re borrowing:
Ok, the club goes to the bank and says we want to borrow £8m to build an £8m piece of property that will generate £x a year for y years and the bank gives us the money which we have to spend on the property otherwise the bank gets very cross.
Alternatively, the club goes to the bank and says we want to borrow (say) £5m against this old firetrap which already has secured debt against it in order to fund salaries for two or three years for a really top quality coach and his team that we hope will improve our performance on the field. Bank says have you tried wonga because we’d be offering a similar rate.