Is it now time to thank Cockers?

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Cagey Tiger
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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by Cagey Tiger » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:26 am

G.K wrote:So another capitulation and heavy defeat. How many more do we have to endure?
As he hasn't been shown the door already, probably as many as are likely to happen until the end of the season.

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by tigercaspian » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:03 am

Cagey Tiger wrote:
fillfinger wrote:Who pays for a change of DOR? Also the cost - money going out and money on the new Head Coach coming in. I reckon we are are skint!
The rugby show made some really good points about the cost of the rugby infrastructure and the impact this has on the team. In particular I worry about the number of injuries in the squad and the length of time players are out. I still think we have a really good team if the majority of players are fit. This is increasingly not the case. We are missing some real impact players in the pack.
Cannot see how RC is at fault for a lot of this. So a big change at a bad time for no difference. Just think it will make things worse.


+1

And, while I have said before that if Cockers does go, end of season would be better than part way through, if it has to be part way, given the next few weeks fixtures, doing anything to disrupt things until they have been played could be very unsettling and disruptive for the players.
+2

And Strawclearer is also right in that outside of Sarries, Wasps, and Bath whose ability to splash the cash seems limitless, we are not doing so badly.

For those of you who still haven't got it, Wasps (a) lost £9 million pre tax last report (b) have to repay £33 million in 2022 and (c) owe Derek Richardson £12 million.

Is this how you want your club run??

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by G.K » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:58 am

Simple question - are we or are we not spending up to the salary cap? If so then Sarries and Wasps sugar daddies are irrelevant. If not then why not if we have the biggest fan base and hence sales of any club in the AP?

I also suggest some of you go and watch again the recent matches, the standard of play is generally dire and relativly easy to defend against. The pack is getting pushed around, can't defend mauls, doesn't compete at line outs and the forwards generally amble around the park looking lost.

Attacking wise Tigers often come away from the opposition 22 with nothing after several phases of lateral play, eventually getting turned over or penalised. Kick chases and restarts are generally woeful. Back play is too slow or even static.

People keep saying we have good players but I struggle to see it and Tigers now appears to be a team that are average in ability and technique and somewhat lacking in spirit. Check the body language.

I don't think it's all down to Cockers, as I've said others apprear to be letting him down, but as DOR he has to carry the can I'm afraid.
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by Tigerbeat » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:04 am

With a weakened pack (Ayerza, Barrow, Croft, now Mulipola) and a lack of top backs (Pieterson, Veainu, Toomua, Smith, Tait) due to injury, this is always going to be difficult. The players are coached but they are failing to execute. I fully accept that the DOR takes ultimate responsibility, but in this case he has been working with limited resources, not of his own making. I am sure that the board are concerned and will do what is best for the club.

Mike Williams went off with a head injury and did not return, suggesting that ne may have a week or two off.

The best Tigers team has not been available to take to the field this season. The squad looks good but they have never had a chance to play and gel together.
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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by L Smith » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:06 am

tigercaspian wrote:
Cagey Tiger wrote:
fillfinger wrote:Who pays for a change of DOR? Also the cost - money going out and money on the new Head Coach coming in. I reckon we are are skint!
The rugby show made some really good points about the cost of the rugby infrastructure and the impact this has on the team. In particular I worry about the number of injuries in the squad and the length of time players are out. I still think we have a really good team if the majority of players are fit. This is increasingly not the case. We are missing some real impact players in the pack.
Cannot see how RC is at fault for a lot of this. So a big change at a bad time for no difference. Just think it will make things worse.


+1

And, while I have said before that if Cockers does go, end of season would be better than part way through, if it has to be part way, given the next few weeks fixtures, doing anything to disrupt things until they have been played could be very unsettling and disruptive for the players.
+2

And Strawclearer is also right in that outside of Sarries, Wasps, and Bath whose ability to splash the cash seems limitless, we are not doing so badly.

For those of you who still haven't got it, Wasps (a) lost £9 million pre tax last report (b) have to repay £33 million in 2022 and (c) owe Derek Richardson £12 million.

Is this how you want your club run??
Nope. If that's the cost of success (and they haven't won anything yet: nor Bath), imho, it's not worth the price. Let's not be part of an inflationary bubble where foreign billionaires take over the sport and pimp it out to the corporate prawn sandwich munchers.
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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by jgriffin » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:34 am

I was going to quit this forum (I have quit the FB supporters) because of the moronic repetitive comments. However I am so heartened that I have just read a whole host of sensible comments, recognising the limitations and difficulties the club is struggling with, and the lunacy of going down the mega-debt route. I also agree that we need a settled side, lacking 8-10 key players as we are, and that we ahve to accept that is where we are right now. The mythical golden ge never existed, and insofar as we won stuff, it was before the money men, before three or more clubs decided to challenge the weak PRL grip and smash it, building horrendously precarious business models more fitted to football.
In ten years, if the AP survives, Tigers will be there, but for the rest????

So yes, it is time to thank Cockers, but only to say thanks for struggling on when others might have bailed; here's a bit more cash, let's keep moving on and up with all the developing young players we have.
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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by G.K » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:42 am

Not going for Lexit now then JG? Good chap - that's the spirit otherwise I'd be running out of people to wind up. :smt002
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by BigChris » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:31 am

jgriffin wrote:I was going to quit this forum (I have quit the FB supporters) because of the moronic repetitive comments. However I am so heartened that I have just read a whole host of sensible comments, recognising the limitations and difficulties the club is struggling with, and the lunacy of going down the mega-debt route. I also agree that we need a settled side, lacking 8-10 key players as we are, and that we ahve to accept that is where we are right now. The mythical golden ge never existed, and insofar as we won stuff, it was before the money men, before three or more clubs decided to challenge the weak PRL grip and smash it, building horrendously precarious business models more fitted to football.
In ten years, if the AP survives, Tigers will be there, but for the rest????

So yes, it is time to thank Cockers, but only to say thanks for struggling on when others might have bailed; here's a bit more cash, let's keep moving on and up with all the developing young players we have.
100% this.

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by Qbec » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:45 am

Thank you jgriffin & Tigerbeat, I have spent the last few week just reading the comments on here & they alone have left me feeling down.
I know we as a team have not played consistantly well for quite a bit now, But lets look at the facts We have not had what I would call all our front line players on the pitch to play together once this season.
I have looked at those games of late & seen the lads that have come through & put in a :censored: good show, No we haven't won some of those games but I'll tell you something what with the lads that have played & those injured coming back in we will have a very strong squad to put against any oposition & the future does look good in my view.
I say this because when all said & done anything put on here is just that "Our view" We are not in the know we are looking from the outside in.
So lets continue to do what Tigers Supporters get behind the Team whoever is in our shirt & give them everything we can on the day.
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Tyzot
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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by Tyzot » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:06 pm

Well said.

loretta
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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by loretta » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:07 pm

I think someone must have slipped some absinthe in to my glass over xmas (shakes head and stares at bottle for comedic effect). A whole page of positive, supportive and, most surprising of all, realistic comments!

A very pleasant change. Bravo!
I find your lack of faith......disturbing.

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by MikeR » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:00 pm

I think the lunatics have taken over the madhouse ! We are in a situation where every away game against a top 4 side is a guaranteed heavy loss , our overall play year on year seems to get worse and worse , our England representation gets smaller and smaller - we are really in poor shape as a Club . I find it amazing that the Board have not acted by now , but am encouraged that the silence means that something will happen soon .

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by Old Hob » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:41 pm

Tigerbeat wrote:With a weakened pack (Ayerza, Barrow, Croft, now Mulipola) and a lack of top backs (Pieterson, Veainu, Toomua, Smith, Tait) due to injury, this is always going to be difficult. The players are coached but they are failing to execute. I fully accept that the DOR takes ultimate responsibility, but in this case he has been working with limited resources, not of his own making. I am sure that the board are concerned and will do what is best for the club.

Mike Williams went off with a head injury and did not return, suggesting that ne may have a week or two off.

The best Tigers team has not been available to take to the field this season. The squad looks good but they have never had a chance to play and gel together.
This is no excuse; every premiership club is in exactly the same position. It is expected that one third of any squad will be unavailable at any one time. Worcester today have a whole raft of first choice players unavailable. The training should be taking care of this; different combinations, sudden changes of personnel to defensive groups, red cards, yellow cards - all of these should have contingencies in place. All replacement players shoud be familiar with all relevant drills. "We didn't have wonder boy and super youth together like we planned in July"... Plan for this, assume the worst and do everything possible to create the best.
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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by RagingBull » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:00 pm

We are not skint.

We pay up to the cap with ease, it is just an excuse used by those in charge now as a reason why the team can't perform.

Personally I think those in charge are stuggling coming to terms with the fact that Tigers are not the premier team in England and therefore have to accept player will prob want more to come to us.

Every team has injury problems this time of year it shouldn't be an excuse really esp for poor play I can understand losing but not that badly against a fairly alright Exeter team.

Has our development really improved with the young Tigers? Evans and Thacker both are not considered starters despite showing they can handle it just fine, Catchpole is another but hard to judge due to injuries. But most of our young talent starting have come from other teams.

Our backs have trained with each other since August how many have come in since start of season? They really shouldn't be this clueless same as the forwards they train with each for 5 months now and don't seem like a unit.

I do question the recuitment over the last 3 seasons and how they are used.

Do Tigers need to bite the bullet for a season money wise and sort out the training facilities I know it is money but results on the pitch will affect our finance off the pitch.


The biggest question is what is wrong with the team currently that they can't seem to be up for it away from him? and so far nothing has seems to work which poses the question do they not know? If so do we need to change things at the top, we will never get into a final if you can't win away against top teams.

The board will be making changes very soon IMO better coaches have gone for less, and I think people need to accept that.

As for me the teams v Munster, V Exter and V Wasps where decent players with no motivation and no idea on what to do and whilst that involves responbility from the players side a lot is down to the coaches.

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Re: Is it now time to thank Cockers?

Post by Crumblies » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:11 pm

MikeR wrote:I think the lunatics have taken over the madhouse ! We are in a situation where every away game against a top 4 side is a guaranteed heavy loss , our overall play year on year seems to get worse and worse , our England representation gets smaller and smaller - we are really in poor shape as a Club . I find it amazing that the Board have not acted by now , but am encouraged that the silence means that something will happen soon .
Thank goodness for some sanity.

For years the so called happy clappers have thrived on their version of support, accusing others of doom-mongering. Well its now occurred to me they are the doom mongers, proclaiming we now have to accept mediocrity, as Cockerill seems to have done. Lets blame the lack of funds, (we are still the best supported club in the country, supposedly now as someone else as posted operating at the same salary cap level. Oh ok, lets blame the ref on a week by week basis, no ok lets blame the injury list or international call ups, no ok let's blame the other coaches or shall we blame the tea ladies. With every post JGriffin tries desperately to rewrite history, the latest condemning TTE's lack of effort at Tigers, conveniently forgetting that once he declared his availability for England IMHO his days at Tigers were numbered by RC and his treatment was shameful, of course this was not limited to just him viz 36, Salvi, Moody, Castrogiavani, Ford, Brooks, Aguilla.

Just some commonsense questions that suggest serious problems:
What is going on with our No. 8 situation, who is our 1st & 2nd choice hooker. Tom Young has not played well all year, if Richard Cockerill believes the advantages Thacker brings to the loose outweighs the liabilities in the scrum then have the courage of your convictions and back the lad by playing him regularly. George Worth thrown in at the deep end against Munster, then made a scapegoat to accommodate OW, Roberts and FB. Who is his first choice fly half? Whats going on with Will Evans England U20 W/C man of the tournament (IMHO and many others) now unable to get a start & getting splinters every week until the final 10 mins when the game is lost..

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