northerntiger wrote:No, he's not the huge, tackle breaking 8 people on here want so much
Interesting point: got me thinking. Would he look ordinary in the type of static team that we often resemble? I think back to Brendon O'Connor's last games in the ITM cup and he looked a very good 8 but you wouldn't pick him at 8 in the AP. Is that because he's not bulky enough or because of the overall quality around him?
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man
northerntiger wrote:No, he's not the huge, tackle breaking 8 people on here want so much
Interesting point: got me thinking. Would he look ordinary in the type of static team that we often resemble? I think back to Brendon O'Connor's last games in the ITM cup and he looked a very good 8 but you wouldn't pick him at 8 in the AP. Is that because he's not bulky enough or because of the overall quality around him?
I don't know if that's the case. O'Connor, for instance, was the star player in a very poor Blues team. The game is very different in the Northern Hemisphere and he's adapting very well. I would imagine it'd be the same for Read; good players look great in the right environment, quality players can adapt to whatever environment they're playing in.
A big ball carrying 8 might not be everything but aside from Genge where do we have a big ball carrier in the forwards?
In the modern game you need ball carriers. Thacker perhaps at 2 but that weakens the scrum. Bateman looks capable but we seem determined to turn him into a prop. OTY doesn't carry like he did.
Our second rows wouldn't make the bench at some clubs.
I think we're all missing the problem a bit. Man for man, our team is as good as, or better than anyone's, on paper. But a winning team is better than the sum of its parts, Sarries are, wasps are. We are not. And that is up to the coaching set up
mol2 wrote:A big ball carrying 8 might not be everything but aside from Genge where do we have a big ball carrier in the forwards?
In the modern game you need ball carriers. Thacker perhaps at 2 but that weakens the scrum. Bateman looks capable but we seem determined to turn him into a prop. OTY doesn't carry like he did.
Our second rows wouldn't make the bench at some clubs.
Our forwards are stuck in a time warp.
When I saw Bateman throw in at the lineout previously he looked like he'd struggle to hit the broadside of a barn.
Kitchener stole more lineouts than anybody else last year (or was it the year before?), he has a history of being excellent at the set piece and Thorn said he'd have made him an All Black. Slater has previously captained England's midweek team and would be an international but for injuries. They are more than good enough, we aren't getting the most from them. Same for all the pack.
mol2 wrote:A big ball carrying 8 might not be everything but aside from Genge where do we have a big ball carrier in the forwards?
In the modern game you need ball carriers. Thacker perhaps at 2 but that weakens the scrum. Bateman looks capable but we seem determined to turn him into a prop. OTY doesn't carry like he did.
Our second rows wouldn't make the bench at some clubs.
Our forwards are stuck in a time warp.
When I saw Bateman throw in at the lineout previously he looked like he'd struggle to hit the broadside of a barn.
Kitchener stole more lineouts than anybody else last year (or was it the year before?), he has a history of being excellent at the set piece and Thorn said he'd have made him an All Black. Slater has previously captained England's midweek team and would be an international but for injuries. They are more than good enough, we aren't getting the most from them. Same for all the pack.
Tigers are missing a first class forwards coach, it is beyond Richard Blaze- water boy maybe but not a modern forwards coach - shame we missed out on Rowntree.
It doesn't really matter if you are 18,19 or 20 st if you do not take the ball going forward at pace. Defences Will handle most static situations and most of the time we are taking the ball almost standing still. We need a structure where our existing ball carriers come from much deeper and our SH's find the man coming from deep. This probably means 2 or 3 of our forwards taking it in turns to make these sort of runs. I am more worried at the moment about out inability to defend the rolling maul. If I was coaching our next 3 opponents, I would have them practising mauls every day of the week. It is a very big weakness at present.
Vunipola when fit, Hughes, Faletau, Waldrom, Morgan, Beaumont, Chisholm even....these guys get over the gain line, allowing their scrum half to dictate play...front foot ball. We have one of the best 9s in world rugby who is digging the ball out of rucks because we haven't cleared it out properly and is constantly getting slow ball !! Who gets over the gain line for us ? Nobody. We die with the ball, don't off load and have failed against good breakdown sides too often this season. It's a mindset change that's needed and we need to get players in who don't just chug the ball up and run into other players.
