Tackling players in the air

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Doghashadhisday
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Tackling players in the air

Post by Doghashadhisday » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:05 am

I think that players running at full pelt and launching themselves into the air are being reckless. Why not outlaw jumping in the air on the run. In the line-outs go back to natural jumping rather than lifting players. I think it would cut out some of the problems we have seen recently. What do others think?

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by Cagey Tiger » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:20 am

Doghashadhisday wrote:I think that players running at full pelt and launching themselves into the air are being reckless. Why not outlaw jumping in the air on the run. In the line-outs go back to natural jumping rather than lifting players. I think it would cut out some of the problems we have seen recently. What do others think?
I agree that running and launching yourself in the air while still on the move can be very dangerous to the jumper and anyone else they make contact with. Their momentum and any collision will almost always end up with the legs being slowed down/stopped, while the upper body and head continue moving, leading to them falling on arms/shoulders/head.

However, I still think that jumping from a standing position should be allowed. If they end up landing "badly", it will probably be down to interference /tackling in the air.

As for lineouts, if you ban lifting, you will go back to the situation of having the players who would have been lifting having nothing to do except try and make mischief by fair means or foul. And the ref can usually ping whichever side he fancies as someone on both sides will be pretty much guaranteed to have done something illegal. Old style lineouts were often a farce.

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by mol2 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:20 pm

It would take away the situation where a player is penalised for being where the jumping player lands.
The North example being a clear example of a player landing nowhere near where he took off - it should be a high jump not a long jump. That way the obligation for the competing player not to step into the space where the player jumped from, not guess where a player may land.

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by fleabane » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:02 pm

North jumps in such a way, feet 'bicycling' towards the opposition, and it is this I object to. It prevents the opposition from attacking the ball, and when North crashes into them they are penalised for tackling a player in the air, as happened in the French match last weekend, when the player was watching the ball which was coming straight to him.
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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by jgriffin » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:13 pm

fleabane wrote:North jumps in such a way, feet 'bicycling' towards the opposition, and it is this I object to. It prevents the opposition from attacking the ball, and when North crashes into them they are penalised for tackling a player in the air, as happened in the French match last weekend, when the player was watching the ball which was coming straight to him.
Both the Welsh and Irish teams do this deliberately, seems to be routine. Hope it is quashed somehow
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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by Spicer » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:22 pm

I don't think what you propose is very realistic. To jump from standing starts when chasing the kicks means the player will have to accelerate, reach top speed, then decelerate to zero and then jump. For this to be possible the kicks have to be very short. Thus making the tactic of the up&under, the kick and chase or the cross field kick a bit pointless. It would stop any competition from high balls. It also favors tall players way more.
The way to deal with it is to start banning anybody who high tackles for a couple of matches. If you start to punish it, then it would stop soon after apart from genuine accidents.

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by jgriffin » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:56 pm

I am fine with all of it bar two things:
1 the decision to penalise by outcome (which is not determined by intent and can clearly be either random or a direct result of the tackled player's behaviour). I can see no sensible way forward except case-by-case treatment.
2 the Welsh/Irish boots first style, which inevitably leads to the tackler being heavily penalised, even if they actually don't challenge, as the flying catcher almost inevitably ends up on their back on the deck. This, IMO should result in a yellow card and penalty for dangerous play and if implemented, would stop one aspect of the problem very quickly.
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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by fleabane » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:07 pm

Absolutely jg, it's the equivalent of a two footed lounge in football.
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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by strawclearer » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:40 pm

If you look at the North / Thompstone incident again (and again!), it's down to luck alone that our boy didn't lose his teeth or worse. I really don't understand this - :smt017 - surely it's at the referee's discretion to determine whether something is dangerous and worthy of a penalty etc? Why does this need further qualification in terms of a rule change? North jumped recklessly and should have been penalised under existing rules - shouldn't he?
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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by Noddy555 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:28 pm

If we are talking about this outside of the remit of the Lineout then all well and good. This is definitely a NO NO situation, however as any one who has played the game particularly as a forward, will tell you that Lineouts operate on such small margins that often players are penalised when competing for balls in the air in a legal way. Unfortuately there seems to be different interpretations on this even
different from World class referees. The main rule that any ref must follow is his interpretation of the rules allied with commonsense.

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by mol2 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:27 pm

Some of this is Aussie rules or Gaelic football -bringing you knees/feet up to protect your ribs and dissuade the competing player. In the end this restricts the height attained but does does endanger the competitor and probably increases the chance of the jumper being upended.

Outlawing this would make the jump safer for both jumpers.

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by Bowden Tiger » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:41 pm

As an ex prop, I really don't understand all this talk about running and jumping. Seriously though, as several posters have already stated, the rules are already there to protect players. It is reckless and dangerous to run at pace, with your eyes on the ball, and then to jump into the air, so risking hurting yourself or another player. Referees should show some bottle and penalise these reckless challenges.

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by Norfolk & Goode » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:54 pm

[quote="strawclearer"North jumped recklessly and should have been penalised under existing rules - shouldn't he?[/quote]

Which law? It's not a reckless act to jump to retrieve the ball, even with your studs facing the defender! it can be an offence to kick out whilst in the air as that could be deemed as 'dangerous play' or 'unsporting'.

I see 2 routes this will go down:
1. Further dumbing down of the game by banning 'jumping in the air' to retrieve the ball, you can't jump into a tackle so there may be some justification there.
2. Adapt the game by only allowing a jump from a standstill which is perfectly reasonable, because in practise this only forces the kicker to kick shorter so the chasers can get to the point where the ball lands, therefore enabling a chaser to jump from a standstill.

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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by strawclearer » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:23 pm

Norfolk & Goode wrote:
strawclearer wrote:North jumped recklessly and should have been penalised under existing rules - shouldn't he?
Which law? It's not a reckless act to jump to retrieve the ball, even with your studs facing the defender! it can be an offence to kick out whilst in the air as that could be deemed as 'dangerous play' or 'unsporting'.

I see 2 routes this will go down:
1. Further dumbing down of the game by banning 'jumping in the air' to retrieve the ball, you can't jump into a tackle so there may be some justification there.
2. Adapt the game by only allowing a jump from a standstill which is perfectly reasonable, because in practise this only forces the kicker to kick shorter so the chasers can get to the point where the ball lands, therefore enabling a chaser to jump from a standstill.
I was thinking of World Rugby's Law 10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT.

It says, under Dangerous Tackling, that a player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.

It also stipulates that a player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).

The sanction for both offences is a penalty so, evidently, within the remit of the referee.

My point was that, in jumping 'knees up' towards Thompstone's head, North was guilty of dangerous play and should have been sanctioned under existing laws.
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Re: Tackling players in the air

Post by voice of the crumbie » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:57 pm

My point was that, in jumping 'knees up' towards Thompstone's head, North was guilty of dangerous play and should have been sanctioned under existing laws.
This was the concensus of opinion among our group of long-term season ticket holders on the terrace.
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