Tigers v Wasps

[strawclearer]

Are we a good side playing badly?
Or are we a moderate side playing with little pattern or commitment?

We don't seem able to beat the top sides any more and I am not including Wasps in the category of top sides from what I've seen of them.

This is the key question. The team that is the most successful ever and is going to continue that run - or - one that's time is over?

Saracens, much as I loathe them, have built and steadied and consolidated and we have bought in new players, most southern hemisphere who are not Tigers born and bred. They may be talented but...

I like to think that we're not a good team - we're a great team in its formative season.

(It's thoughts like that that make me the 'happy-clapping' optimist and all-round good guy that my dog thinks I am!)

[Hot_Charlie]

The poorest thing I saw, which was worse watching the recording, was the missed tackle by Ayerza and I think McCaffery that led to their No.8 scoring.

I think that was Fitzgerald not McCaffrey. Genge made his entrance almost immediately afterwards, although I suspect that was due to the scoreline rather than any players performance.

[tigercaspian]

Thanks for the correction. Apologies to LM: brickbats for MF.

[SIBARITE]

Are we a good side playing badly?
Or are we a moderate side playing with little pattern or commitment?

We don't seem able to beat the top sides any more and I am not including Wasps in the category of top sides from what I've seen of them.

This is the key question. The team that is the most successful ever and is going to continue that run - or - one that's time is over?

Saracens, much as I loathe them, have built and steadied and consolidated and we have bought in new players, most southern hemisphere who are not Tigers born and bred. They may be talented but...

....they are not coached as well as Sarries?

[JackFlashJonny]

Something is not right and I have been thinking about what it is:

Hansen is a very good defensive coach with a great record yet we are shipping points is that because the players aren't good enough or just don't buy into his ideology?
The centres aren't good enough.....poor Betham isn't even a centre
Matt Tait love him as I always have is not good enough..fullback is a great place to start attacks and he rarely breaks the first tackle or kicks aimlessly
The ball carrying levels are woeful, Hamilton is not the player we needed just another workhorse it seems...
Tom Youngs seems very off his game but hopefully he is just working his way back in..harsh that Thacker isn't being used such is his skill level but I understand why

One thing is clear to me is that no-one will touch Saracens they are a different class only possibly Wasps at full strength could challenge them..

[Iain]

We are a good team. We do have good players. The way we're trying to play makes sense and to my mind is the right way. If it clicks, it's great. But two things (predominantly) seem to be going wrong.

1. Stupid errors. Unforced ones. Daft individual decisions. There isn't a lot that Cockerill can do about this and it's the key thing that's undermining us.

2. Defence. We're demonstrably shipping too many points. I'm led to believe in 15 of the last 20 Premiership games we've shipped over 20 points. That isn't good enough and even the rosiest of fans will accept that. That needs fixing and Hansen is really going to have to earn his money in the coming weeks.

[Tigerbeat]

We are a good team. We do have good players. The way we're trying to play makes sense and to my mind is the right way. If it clicks, it's great. But two things (predominantly) seem to be going wrong.

1. Stupid errors. Unforced ones. Daft individual decisions. There isn't a lot that Cockerill can do about this and it's the key thing that's undermining us.

2. Defence. We're demonstrably shipping too many points. I'm led to believe in 15 of the last 20 Premiership games we've shipped over 20 points. That isn't good enough and even the rosiest of fans will accept that. That needs fixing and Hansen is really going to have to earn his money in the coming weeks.

Iain, whilst agree that the defence needs to be tighter, giving soft tries away by throwing interceptions or getting stripped of the ball does not help. The players have probably got a strong defensive system from the training ground but are failing to implement it in match play.
Note that the Wasps defence coach was none other than Phil Blake.....formerly at Tigers!

[sapajo]

Note that the Wasps defence coach was none other than Phil Blake.....formerly at Tigers!

Never did understand why we sacked him?

[Iain]

We are a good team. We do have good players. The way we're trying to play makes sense and to my mind is the right way. If it clicks, it's great. But two things (predominantly) seem to be going wrong.

1. Stupid errors. Unforced ones. Daft individual decisions. There isn't a lot that Cockerill can do about this and it's the key thing that's undermining us.

2. Defence. We're demonstrably shipping too many points. I'm led to believe in 15 of the last 20 Premiership games we've shipped over 20 points. That isn't good enough and even the rosiest of fans will accept that. That needs fixing and Hansen is really going to have to earn his money in the coming weeks.

Iain, whilst agree that the defence needs to be tighter, giving soft tries away by throwing interceptions or getting stripped of the ball does not help. The players have probably got a strong defensive system from the training ground but are failing to implement it in match play.
Note that the Wasps defence coach was none other than Phil Blake.....formerly at Tigers!

I refer you to my first point.

[Iain]

Note that the Wasps defence coach was none other than Phil Blake.....formerly at Tigers!

Never did understand why we sacked him?

He was suspended from the game after breaking rules about betting.

[Skin_and_Muscle]

Note that the Wasps defence coach was none other than Phil Blake.....formerly at Tigers!

Never did understand why we sacked him?

Wasn't it unscrupulous betting practices that got him fired by Tigers and banned from the game for a short while?

[sapajo]

Note that the Wasps defence coach was none other than Phil Blake.....formerly at Tigers!

Never did understand why we sacked him?

He was suspended from the game after breaking rules about betting.

Thank you kindly, just googled this and came across this, to quote the Guardian article

"Leicester have parted company with Blake, although that process was already in motion with the announcement in mid-season that Aaron Mauger, the former All Black and Tigers centre, would be arriving as head coach from Canterbury, bringing with him his own defence coach, Scott Hansen".

[Tigerpete]

How do you work that out?

(Loss)/profit for the financial year (1,387)

Cash and current debtors 3,331
Current creditors (9,441)

Tigers report and accounts 2015, figure are in thousands of pounds. You're welcome.

Indeed. Those same accounts also show that we bring in over £20M, have consistently made a profit for the 3 previous years, are showing year on year growth, took a hit with the one off charge for demolishing the clubhouse and we are comfortably paying down costs of all the new build. Saints by comparison bring in £16M have healthy profits and cash in the bank. Saracens have the most monumental debt of over £45M..... "You pays your money and gets your choice"

My point being that we are still the biggest club with the biggest levels of funding. I appreciate that it is a balance but either the club is spending it's money on infrastructure (which we know will bring in even more revenue in the future), recruiting the wrong players, or have the wrong coach.....

While Welford Road becomes ever more beautiful and filled with high priced corporate seats, which tbh will help guarantee the future of the club, I can't help but think that the focus is not wholly on the team and its performance at this moment.

We do not have a divine right to win and we have to work hard for that right, but at the moment something isn't right and it's not a financial issue.......

[ourla]

It's funny how many were :censored: scared when Tait and Manu looked like leaving. Ayerza a blink of an eye ago was one of the best props in the world. McCaffrey was having praise heaped on him. And yet there have all had critics and suggestions they should be dropped in this thread. Some people are being very fickle.

It's two games in. Like everybody else including players and coaches, I am concerned at the number of points gifted to the opposition in the first two games and in the Wasps game the lack of energy in the first half. But it's a long way from a crisis or the need to make drastic changes.

[fortysix]

Far too early to commit---------if we win the next four all will be forgotten !
But if we dont, and remember we got stuffed at Kingston Park last season, then big questions will be asked
Certainly our front three at present seem woefully underpowered, Youngs is a shadow
Kitchener and Slater have regressed
The back row are all just pretty good journeymen.
As for the backs, where do we start ?
Tait is long gone---but somehow retains his place
Matt Smith has helped us out numerous times, but at Wasps or Sarries he would not be there near their team
Burns flatters to deceive, and mirrors Tigers results, in truth
Ben Youngs is in his last season with us, and will bet anyone a pound to a penny he will be gone in 2018
Thats the rumour in Norfolk
Tuilagi-heaven only knows what will happen
Need JPP at full back, TV and Betham on the wings, Thompstone Toomau Tuilagi in the centres .
Best I reckon will be top 4. Hope I'm wrong. But after 65 years supporting the Tigers, I dont think so