Sam Burgess - returning to Australia - updated

[tigercaspian]

Despite the intended humour of my reposting above, it is meant to have a serious undercurrent - namely that this affair has in my view been the single most destructive element in England's failure to get out of their group. They had a chance to do it with a relatively settled and loyal squad but both words 'settled ' and 'loyal' were destroyed by the decision to fast-track Burgess in to the team.
There are also signs that it has unsettled the coaching team.
Not one good thing has come of it for anyone connected to England, anything that is connected to English rugby union, not for Bath, not for players left out for Burgess's sake....not one good thing.
The only people to have benefitted have been England's opposition in this RWC and those who have been paid to get Burgess here and then ferry him back again.
Burgess too has been paid for it and, by English rugby standards, paid well so, please, don't feel sorry for the bloke.
In setting his sights on appearing in England Union colours, he also needed ambition and a thick hide because he knew he would be trampling on some peoples ambitions. So please don't feel sorry for him.....he knew that was part of the landscape . Sorry, Luther and others.
In making the code transfer , he also presumably took advice from those that had done it before, ie Farrell senior, J Robinson, perhaps SBW. I can't believe any of those told him anything other than he would be climbing a :censored: big mountain. Yet, if they did, he chose to ignore that advice. Is that self-confidence? Probably. Sign of a teak-hard character? Probably. Sign of arrogance ? Possibly. But please don't feel sorry for him because, if he is like that he is not a man who goes looking for our sorrow .
He looked at all these complications and decided, no doubt with advice from family, friends, bankers, and advisors, that he could do it. The decision to come was thoroughly thought through and, once the business end of things was on the table for signature , he signed. It was a professional decision , not something dreamt up on a Sunday morning hangover. So please don't feel sorry for him.
Sorry to repeat myself but not one good thing has come out of this for anyone connected to England or any of us concerned about English rugby union: that's who you should feel sorry for.

[Wolftiger]

My thoughts exactly, tigercaspian And, if it is is possible, I feel sorry for those like myself, who forked out a lot of money to support England through to the finals of the World Cup, but were hopelessly shortchanged by the decisions of all concerned with selection.

[northerntiger]

I have 3 things to say about the whole Sam Burgess saga.

1) He will be no loss at all to Rugby Union

2) Even though I am glad he has gone back to League, he should be ashamed of himself. He has been playing Union for 1 year and has already given up. That, to me, shows what time of player and person he is.

3) What a complete waste of time, energy and effort!

I think, given time as a flanker he could have been very good. However, all the press about him lauded his character, leadership etc etc. Indeed, Lancaster mentioned this as one of the reasons he was picked.
Seems odd that such a character would give up after only one year. Makes you wonder if he was only doing it for the WC. Makes me wonder even more what guarantees he may have been given. He doesn't compare well with the likes of Eastmond, who put in the seasons to learn the game, and didn't get picked.

Either way, this has probably killed off any more high profile league crossovers

[mol2]

Leadership and character are useless if you can't play.
By that reasoning you could have John Major and Tony Blair as your centres!

[loretta]

Leadership and character are useless if you can't play.
By that reasoning you could have John Major and Tony Blair as your centres!

Now, who wouldn't pay good money to see Mulipola running at that pair!!

[Iain]

He's been let down. He should still be developing his position and understanding with his club. He should never have been thrown into international rugby with no prior experience before the World Cup, let alone out of position. In doing so, he was put on a pedestal to become a scapegoat, while experienced players in those positions were left out, creating what I can only imagine was bewilderment and confusion amongst the squad. I actually feel a little sorry for Bath, since they seemed to be doing a good job of turning him into a decent 6 only for England to completely ruin his confidence.

To think one of his national coaches was Andy Farrell, someone who experienced almost identical problems when he converted from League, is astonishing. Farrell really ought to have known better and understood the problems Burgess was facing.

An absolute shambles. The handling of which probably completely undermined England's World Cup campaign.

[Hiron]

Personally, I'll lose no sleep over Burgess heading back to joke scrums and no flankers. He was promised the moon on a stick but now, since the debacle that was England's RWC2015 campaign, he can't get out of the country fast enough.

Is he willing to dog it out, learn the game, find his true position and be ready for Japan in 2019? No way cobber! Suddenly he's homesick and missing his family.

[LE18]

Did he have to accept his selection for the WC, could he not have said I'm not ready, or was it written into his contract? anyway

[sapajo]

Did he have to accept his selection for the WC, could he not have said I'm not ready, or was it written into his contract? anyway

Spot on! For all the Burgess apologists he had the right to say NO to England selection and indeed he could have ruled himself out of selection in the first place. In my view he came to union singularly to play in the world cup. He achieved that so with nothing left to achieve he has returned to League.

[Iain]

Did he have to accept his selection for the WC, could he not have said I'm not ready, or was it written into his contract? anyway

Spot on! For all the Burgess apologists he had the right to say NO to England selection and indeed he could have ruled himself out of selection in the first place. In my view he came to union singularly to play in the world cup. He achieved that so with nothing left to achieve he has returned to League.

In the real world who is going to do that? If you're called up for the World Cup you play in it. Nobody is going to say "oh but I don't think I'm good enough".

[vin rouge]

not sure any professional sportsperson would say no to being picked for their country @ a home world cup- I wouldnt criticize him for that- indeed if he had said no people would criticize him for letting his country down.

where he has let himself down is not persevering. he looks to me like a spoilt child who hasnt had his way so he's off. ok things didnt work out at the world cup- if he hadnt been picked at all would he have left as well- was he just along for the world cup ride?

[tigercaspian]

And that lack of perseverance, as vin rouge correctly points out, is another reason why we shouldn't feel sorry for him. Another decision professionally thought through and acted on.

[Hiron]

By that reasoning you could have John Major and Tony Blair as your centres!

Now, who wouldn't pay good money to see Mulipola running at that pair!!

It's the nearest the Islington war criminal would ever get to seeing a weapon of mass destruction.

[jgriffin]

Woodward puts the boot in - wonder who is the scapegoat and who is hiding?
My guesses are MJ and Toxic_:censored:.

http://tinyurl.com/ozdom3h

[TigerCam]

I have 3 things to say about the whole Sam Burgess saga.

1) He will be no loss at all to Rugby Union

2) Even though I am glad he has gone back to League, he should be ashamed of himself. He has been playing Union for 1 year and has already given up. That, to me, shows what time of player and person he is.

3) What a complete waste of time, energy and effort!

I think, given time as a flanker he could have been very good. However, all the press about him lauded his character, leadership etc etc. Indeed, Lancaster mentioned this as one of the reasons he was picked.
Seems odd that such a character would give up after only one year. Makes you wonder if he was only doing it for the WC. Makes me wonder even more what guarantees he may have been given. He doesn't compare well with the likes of Eastmond, who put in the seasons to learn the game, and didn't get picked.

Either way, this has probably killed off any more high profile league crossovers

1. As for being a loss, Dunno - he never played long enough and in one position to ever prove his union ability - we will never know?

2. I don't believe he should be ashamed not his fault - directly IMO? The RFU, yes for trying something again (A Farrell) that did'nt work. The worst decision for me was choosing him over Slade and Burrell. A professional game, so he will go where he deems it best and if that is the comfort of Oz family and all then so be it?

3. Yep! a complete waste of time, effort and money - as he has now left Union.

"probably killed off any more high profile league crossovers?" I doubt it, some bright spark at the RFU will undoubtedly resurrect this in years to come or 2019 as yet another 'saviour' of english rugby.