Are Leicester Tigers in decline?

[ellis9]

Fortysix, you said we have declined and others have caught up. Perhaps we haven't declined but others have improved significantly.

[Doghashadhisday]

When you are at the top there is only one way to go. If those who are complaining were to look at their own performances I would suggest that eventually their staying power declines! Nothing lasts forever and even the blue pills just extends things

[fleabane]

Ellis9, if others have caught up and we haven't maintained a gap, we have declined. It is not sufficient to only maintain a position, although I do not believe we have even done that. The way we have not been able to maintain the same numbers of fit and available players, the lack of an attacking ethos, a scrum that no longer is the most dominant, the sometimes questionable recruitment policy whereby the backs are largely ignored and players no longer see us as the team to play for, together with the exodus of senior players are all indicators that all is not as it should be, and all contribute to decline.

[h's dad]

Yet when I make the exact same observations, I'm a WUM....

I think some people just can't handle the truth.

I had to look up WUM. For those that don't know their urban acronyms, it means wind-up merchant.

You know as well as we do Roly there is no "truth". It's all a matter of opinion. The criteria for decline is as broad as it is long.

Here’s another poser for you ourla, ROFL (or even ROFLMAO). It is a real acronym and not a made up one that will never catch on like some that have been bandied about recently.

I post it in disbelief if Roly thinks, or expects us to think, that any of his comments come anywhere new the cogent and erudite post put forward by simoscribbler. Although I do like his near plagiarism of Jack Nicholson.

[h's dad]

Ellis9, if others have caught up and we haven't maintained a gap, we have declined. It is not sufficient to only maintain a position, although I do not believe we have even done that. The way we have not been able to maintain the same numbers of fit and available players, the lack of an attacking ethos, a scrum that no longer is the most dominant, the sometimes questionable recruitment policy whereby the backs are largely ignored and players no longer see us as the team to play for, together with the exodus of senior players are all indicators that all is not as it should be, and all contribute to decline.

So what you are saying is that if I run the 100m in 9.72 and my closest rival does it in 9.95 one week, and the next week I run it in 9.65 but my rival does it in 9.78, closing the gap, I have declined? It’s certainly a point of view but it’s taking relativity too far, even for Einstein.

(I am aware that our rivals are currently doing it in 9.62 and we need to improve, notwithstanding that some of our rivals may be using illegal springy shoes. I'm just making the point.)

[fortysix]

Does any body seriously think this outfit from 2015 would beat Healey Johnson Back and Co from 2000-2001..

If so, you have been taking too much wacky backy...

Of course we have declined.

[L Smith]

Does any body seriously think this outfit from 2015 would beat Healey Johnson Back and Co from 2000-2001..

If so, you have been taking too much wacky backy...

Of course we have declined.

While we're quoting Hollywood movies, "Ain't the same ball park, ain't even the same game"

[Hot_Charlie]

Does any body seriously think this outfit from 2015 would beat Healey Johnson Back and Co from 2000-2001..

We've got an arguably better front row in 2015. The 2015 side would probably win in multiples of 3 from scrum penalties. The 2001 side would probably just about stay in touch with the extra range of Stimmo's boot, And Johnno would spend at least 10 minutes in the bin, probably following a wee dust up with one of the Youngs brothers.

Kay v Parling would be good to watch.

Of course historic comparisons are irrelevant. What matters is getting at least 4 points next weekend. Sneak into the play-offs a week later and anything can happen...

[amazing tiger]

You can't really compare players from different eras the game has moved on in many ways.

[Smudge]

a t wrote :-

You can't really compare players from different eras the game has moved on in many ways.

Of course you can. Jonno, Back,Healy Stimmo etc were class acts.
The pack played as a unit and knew how to ruck and maul. The team was well captained.
The game has changed slightly ( not that much) but we are nowhere near that standard now.

The board know it, the members know it, the rugby press know it, the other clubs know it, why don't you?

[jgriffin]

Don't often (ever) agree with Smudge but there are certain basics that have been largely lost - the driving maul still lives on with Saffacens and Stains, but not with us. The 5 m catch-n-drive is rubbish currently. I admit some of this is to do with rubbish reffing, allowing pulldowns, but nevertheless there are some areas we have declined. Front row wise, I think the fully functioning 2015 one (Marcos, OTY and Danster) are probably one of the best frontrows in the NH if not the world. Collective worth to Toulon? £1.5m pa minimum.

[The Boy Dave]

Quote:


amazing tiger
You can't really compare players from different eras the game has moved on in many ways.



Smudge
Of course you can. Jonno, Back,Healy Stimmo etc were class acts.
The pack played as a unit and knew how to ruck and maul. The team was well captained.
The game has changed slightly ( not that much) but we are nowhere near that standard now.

I think you could point to a drop in the standard of rugby player in England in general, not just Leicester.
There is certainly a lack of brains and skills to execute under pressure on show compared to a few years ago.
Size often takes a precedent over brains and natural ability in youth elite rugby particularly in the forwards, I know as I have seen it time and time again with many a special talent overlooked because another is a stone heavier and three inches taller at 16.
Is it any wonder the English can't quite play the running game of the Super 15.
I could put up a list of England internationals who should not be anywhere near that level and they wouldn't be Leicester names, big enough yes but good enough as rugby players, absolutely no way!
This is not just a Leicester problem, it's a National problem.
Sarries and Saints do possess a slightly better balance IMO in the size versus talent war.
Difficult times!

[beech]

It will be interesting to know if Neil Back has any comments about today's performance against Wasps. With Tigers history you would think that an ex-player would wait until the end of the season before writing us off.

[LE18]

Today you have seen the demise of the rolling maul, today it gets called a maul, we were going forward at 100 mph and it gets called a turnover, absolutely ridiculous rule.

[Smudge]

Wasn't able to go to Coventry today so I watched it on the box.

I have to say it was a much better effort and we looked more like a top team on occasions.
That we played most of the game with 14 and still won is marvelous.

The pack were better in open play too but left a lot to be desired at times in other areas like attacking lineouts.
A lineout to us in the oppositions 22 should produce a classic catch and drive.
It has been a trademark ploy for years yet me never managed one.
Likewise the scrums, especially in the second half half were barely adequate.

More positively, we scored some decent trys by good handling. A very pleasant change.
It is also worth commenting on our defence (Well done to the coaches)
I have always enjoyed beating the insects and today was no exception.
Bravo Zulu.