Saracens v Tigers

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covrich
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by covrich » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:14 am

I think Sarries have had the edge over us the past few years.

They even nearly beat us with a total 2nd string end of last year at Welford Road. They just seem to have our number at the minute, we went through a similar phase with Saints where we had theirs.

Snorbins
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Snorbins » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:35 am

Serious Doom and Gloom around here. I just hope one day people will get over those that have left OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING. Their agent or daddy have undoubted spoken to them of the greater riches elsewhere and bigged up their stature to saviour of any team they play for.
I don't think there is a selection problem, other than injuries, I think its leadership ON the pitch and a senior squad member may not be the best but he is ranked by seniority.
I have been impressed by the captains of the LV campaign and serious thought must be given to who is named next year for Club Captain and Team Captain. And lets have consistency not influenced by rank.

And for all those about to fall on their swords in despair the entry music should be changed to Doom and Gloom.

And I would love to see a serious 2nd XV league.

Back to the ward now for happy meds!

Big Dai
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Big Dai » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:43 am

Peering at the world through a stinking hangover it all seems even darker than normal. Then the nipper's band strikes up in the garage in rehearsal for a birthday party later on today.

The change, it had to come, we knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same and history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the last war


I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again, no no


Seemed appropriate some how................if a little loud!
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"

markharbtiger
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by markharbtiger » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:48 am

Wasn't at the game, but a friend of mine was (neutral as a Saints man) and he said the Tigers played the better rugby for large parts of the game...but this may have been more to do with the strong feelings between Saints and Sarries...

The official numbers for this game (9,982) seems to be the most Sarries have had at home for a Premiership game all season. No wonder they are well in the red!

smalldell
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by smalldell » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:33 am

watched the game and the two things that stood out for me were:-

1. Gibson is a huge loss - depending on how we replace him
2. Midfield - The main axis should have been AA and MT but they have been injured most of the season and for me the lack of willingness to get Roberts and Catchpole more involved has been a mystery. Gonerva hates playing centre and is no good at it either and Smith is sound.

On another note thought the ref was good yesterday. Yes he did not keep Sarries on side but that's down to poor touch judges really, but he did cut out some of the bltent blocking Sarries do. Their favourite move is when Goode runs forward straight towards two of his own men who open a wopping hole for him to run through - which they did yesterday on several occasions.

But he controls games well; is generally clear with his decision making and makes me feel he will ref each incident and not have any preconceived ideas.

RagingBull
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by RagingBull » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:23 am

Snorbins wrote:Serious Doom and Gloom around here. I just hope one day people will get over those that have left OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING. Their agent or daddy have undoubted spoken to them of the greater riches elsewhere and bigged up their stature to saviour of any team they play for.
I don't think there is a selection problem, other than injuries, I think its leadership ON the pitch and a senior squad member may not be the best but he is ranked by seniority.
I have been impressed by the captains of the LV campaign and serious thought must be given to who is named next year for Club Captain and Team Captain. And lets have consistency not influenced by rank.

And for all those about to fall on their swords in despair the entry music should be changed to Doom and Gloom.

And I would love to see a serious 2nd XV league.

Back to the ward now for happy meds!
Would love a 2nd XV league we could have a team of:

1) Bristow, 2) Thacker, 3) Pas
4) Peterson, 5) Price
6) Beckett, 7) Owen, 8) Preistley Nangle
9) Tresidder 10) Bryant
12) Pohe, 13) Loamanu
11) R.Williams, 14) Catchpole, 15) Scully

16) Farnworth, 17) Brugnara, 18) Sio, 19) Academy Lock I can spell, 20) Evans, 21) Prince, 22) Haregreaves (sp), 23) Odogwu

trendylfj
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by trendylfj » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:06 pm

I have to admit that I have not read all the comments on this thread, but I am becoming tired of the "GF/12T/etc why did we let them go debate". They are gone and there is nothing we can do about what is history now. Who's fault it was is conjecture. I am much more interested in where we go from here. 4th is as good as we are likely get this year and I can't see us going any further. The style (if you can call it) of our play at times seems routed in the past and a bash em up front mentality. Yesterday, Sarries were yards faster in all aspects of the game - moving the ball, running onto the ball, getting to the breakdown, organising their defence etc. One move in the first half after about 25 mins sums it up for me. Inside centre - back to stand off - wrap around by the winger created loads of space out on the left. Classic intelligent back play. When did we do anything like that? There is nothing better than space, pace and the ability to exploit it BUT IT HAS TO BE CREATED!!! We do not have any of this at the moment.

I will go back to my earlier comments regarding who we should sign and we must move away from the large number of players we have in our 1st team squad and invest more in quality rather than quantity. I would much rather have 2 quality backs costing £500K each than 4 "propects" costing £250K.
Hehehehehehehehe

jgriffin
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by jgriffin » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:54 pm

Reality checks all-round. We have had a rubbish season with a lot of crucial injury absences (NOT all Cockers fault)yet are still well in with a top 4 shout.
Since someone here believe this is a decline, can I ask exactly how dominant Tigers were in the past? Taking the professional era, exactly who has been the dominant side? Were they dominant 100% all the time? The facts don't bear out the doom and gloom, compared to other AP sides.
Really get fed up with the unrelenting negativity of some posters. It's a game, get a life.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

h's dad
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by h's dad » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:33 pm

Crumblies wrote:h's dad wrote
Your opening comments about George Ford being allowed to leave show a lack of comprehension that distracts from anything of merit in the rest of your post
Really, allowing a young mecurial talent (as identified by all on here) to only sign a one year contract and further hone his skills and experience before turning his back on us is good business management? with your understanding of a Director and the need for them to assume responsibility!! it ill behoves you to assert my lack of comprehension. It's amazing how many on here infer inside knowledge that the rest of us don't possess then produce absolutely no supportive evidence.
It bemuse me that you don't seem to see how well your rebuttal refers to your own comments.
It also bemuses me how many seem to regard Cockerill, his assistants, his advisors and his bosses as complete idiots despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

Bristol Tiger
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Bristol Tiger » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:34 pm

jgriffin wrote:Reality checks all-round. We have had a rubbish season with a lot of crucial injury absences (NOT all Cockers fault)yet are still well in with a top 4 shout.
Since someone here believe this is a decline, can I ask exactly how dominant Tigers were in the past? Taking the professional era, exactly who has been the dominant side? Were they dominant 100% all the time? The facts don't bear out the doom and gloom, compared to other AP sides.
Really get fed up with the unrelenting negativity of some posters. It's a game, get a life.
Well said. Interestingly, in our "dominant" 2000/2001 season (we won the treble less you forget) we still lost to Saracens away - as well as Bristol and Gloucester. Even a dominant side struggles to win away matches against the "top" sides of the time.

As for yesterday - while hugely disappointing - we dominated possession and shaded territory. Our set piece functioned well (bar a few dodgy calls from the ref at scrum time). The real disappointment is our inability to score tries. I think the final stat was 11 or 12 visits to the Saracens 22 without scoring a point. We did win penalties a plenty in the later stages but needed to chase the game so didn't kick.

The real difference yesterday was a 10 minute period when we weren't able to cope with a man in the sin bin. Too many points shipped (and then another try as soon as Tom Youngs was back on). Disappointing but not the end of the world.

We do need to improve coaching (backs in general and attack) but the club has already acted on this - just having to wait for the arrival of Mauger. As an aside, did anyone see the Crusaders versus Sharks game? If we can do half of that next season I'm more than happy :smt003

bc
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by bc » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:02 pm

I am a shareholder in the club (as are many posters on this forum) and also a long-term season ticket holder so I don't accept the criticism of disloyal etc that will come from this post.
I am sorry but professional rugby is now a serious business and needs to be treated as such - people have to be accountable.
Only anyone who is totally myopic will not agree that Tigers have been in decline - it is debatable for how long but I would suggest 3 seasons (incl this one. The responsibility for the rugby this club plays, how the players are coached, conditioned etc as well as what players and backroom staff are required sits with the DoR. The DoR reports to Simon Cohen and ultimately the board.
In my humble opinion our DoR has singularly failed in his role and should be relieved of his duties - probably at the end of the season. he has clearly demonstrated that he does have the capability or vision for the role - forwards coach maybe but he is no DoR!
A heavyweight DoR needs be brought in who can help take of the awful weight that Aaron Mauger will have next season.
In a way, finishing outside the top 4 could do us some good - no more papering over the cracks!

Big Dai
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by Big Dai » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:10 pm

jgriffin wrote:Reality checks all-round. We have had a rubbish season with a lot of crucial injury absences (NOT all Cockers fault)yet are still well in with a top 4 shout.
Since someone here believe this is a decline, can I ask exactly how dominant Tigers were in the past? Taking the professional era, exactly who has been the dominant side? Were they dominant 100% all the time? The facts don't bear out the doom and gloom, compared to other AP sides.
Really get fed up with the unrelenting negativity of some posters. It's a game, get a life.
A blunt attack and a strong Sarries defence was easy to predict yesterday. I don't believe it's a decline, more of a stagnation.
As for dominance there was a time we travelled to Sarries and had a sniff of a win to go for. Other's tactics and players have evolved. Ours have stayed still (or left?)

As for dominance it's not the defeat that hurts, it's the manner, the size and the predictability of it. We were better than that......even when we lost.
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"

mol2
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by mol2 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:16 pm

It was a concern that our pack struggled at times in the scrum.
We have, arguably the two best props in world rugby and Tom Youngs is a top flight hooker (although a dumb yellow card). So what went wrong. Were they injured? Was there insufficient grunt in the second row? Was it the pitch that nullified them.

We certainly lacked penetration in the backs in spite of forcing them to make many more tackles. Personnel, tactics or both?

The Boy Dave
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by The Boy Dave » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:28 pm

Interesting reading the many obvious passionate views.
I have watched the game just now as I was busy yesterday.
My club were playing a colts game against the closely beaten county cup finalists from Hinckley and one thing became very apparent, one player does not make a team but one player can break a team.
We couldn't win the ball 1st half, got turned over half a dozen times at the scrum and even though we had a strong wind behind us we were under pressure for nearly the entire 1st half, then a bounce of the ball went our way and we got lucky, the other team gave their destructive prop a rest who at just 16 I think is top quality potential, also their very dangerous centre limped off and the game completely changed in our favour.
There is no doubt that this Tigers squad is filled with quality but losing players like Slater and Manu is damaging, no disrespect to the other players but you canno't replace that type of quality under a salary cap.
You would expect a club of Tigers stature to be able to go and dip into their resources from development and slot a quality player straight in under these circumstances but that has not been possible, a like for like change with a younger bloke chomping at the bit to prove himself has not been possible, changes have been made as a result, I for one understand this as I do not rate some of the players taken in recent times.
It all adds up to very difficult circumstances and with other clubs on the rise I personally think the team has done a good job in giving themselves a chance of making the play offs.
Last edited by The Boy Dave on Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Cheery chappy

MrPartridge
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Re: Saracens v Tigers

Post by MrPartridge » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:33 pm

help take of the awful weight that Aaron Mauger will have next season.
I think this is a really good point… the pressure on Mauger is going to be unreal. I'm hoping/half-expecting him to bring in a couple of top quality players and transform our backs play for starters… which in all honesty isn't fair on him and just shows IMO how much we have gone backwards since the glorious wins over Quins and Saints to take the title in 2013…

I don't know who coaches our backs at the moment…. but offensively they are blunt and inept

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