Insurance or hypocrisy:Lancaster & Armitages

[Bill W (2)]

Bill / Dai...this is why Edward Griffiths was correct recently (IMVHO), when he made his comments about getting rid of relegation, removing the salary cap, and implicitly suggesting a reduction in the size of the AP.

His ideas will protect our clubs from being regionalised, by become stronger and generating a better quality game, that generates a better product to market than exists today.

Griffiths identifies exactly what Dai is saying. That in its current state the AP will head one direction over time, and thats down.

Griffiths is a smart guy. He is saying now is the time to move, protect the club system and make it stronger. But there have to be sacrifices. That sacrifice is the romance notion of small clubs growing to compete with big clubs.

Totally disagree!

Griffiths wishes to protect his clubs position which financially is unsustainable.


If clubs fail they should go down. And those that are better should go up!

[tig1]

Seriously Bill ? you think having relegation or not makes any difference to whether Saracens exist in the future or not ? It makes zero difference.

[Bill W (2)]

Seriously Bill ? you think having relegation or not makes any difference to whether Saracens exist in the future or not ? It makes zero difference.

How far in the future?

[Noddy555]

Pretty soon maybe if Trends continue then the best 23 English players will be plying their trade abroad. What's Lanacaster & the RFU going to do then?

[cidermark]

Seriously Bill ? you think having relegation or not makes any difference to whether Saracens exist in the future or not ? It makes zero difference.

If it makes no difference, why is he so opposed to relegation

[tig1]

Pretty soon maybe if Trends continue then the best 23 English players will be plying their trade abroad. What's Lanacaster & the RFU going to do then?

Sorry Noddy, but this just not the case. There was no trend. The only significant England player to move to France is Johnny Wilkinson. All the others have been fringe players, or players coming to the end..Flood, Sheridan, D Armitage.

The reason the RFU made the change is to give power back to the English clubs over players in negotiations. Every time an important England player came to renew his contract, the player and the agent held the threat of a move to France in order to leverage their negotiations with the English club.

The most important factor in any decent England rugby players country is to represent his country.

But the clubs could not use this leverage in their negotiations with players.
Now they can. For a club like Tigers, it has changed their ability to negotiate massively. Smart move by the rfu and the clubs.

[Bill W (2)]

Pretty soon maybe if Trends continue then the best 23 English players will be plying their trade abroad. What's Lanacaster & the RFU going to do then?

Sorry Noddy, but this just not the case. There was no trend. The only significant England player to move to France is Johnny Wilkinson. All the others have been fringe players, or players coming to the end..Flood, Sheridan, D Armitage.

The reason the RFU made the change is to give power back to the English clubs over players in negotiations. Every time an important England player came to renew his contract, the player and the agent held the threat of a move to France in order to leverage their negotiations with the English club.

The most important factor in any decent England rugby players country is to represent his country.

But the clubs could not use this leverage in their negotiations with players.
Now they can. For a club like Tigers, it has changed their ability to negotiate massively. Smart move by the rfu and the clubs.

tig1 we agree on this.

[Noddy555]

For Tig 1 & Bill (2). What's to stop any current England player moving if the Cash incentive is big enough? You know the old Yankee adage "Loyalty is woth 1 Dollar".If I was a serious contender for an England place and kept getting overlooked I certainly give serous consideration to it. Delon Armitage coming to the end of his career? Which calendar are you working to? He's got a good 5 seasons left at least.

[jgriffin]

For Tig 1 & Bill (2). What's to stop any current England player moving if the Cash incentive is big enough? You know the old Yankee adage "Loyalty is woth 1 Dollar".If I was a serious contender for an England place and kept getting overlooked I certainly give serous consideration to it. Delon Armitage coming to the end of his career? Which calendar are you working to? He's got a good 5 seasons left at least.

And no-one could be left in any doubt of his excellence after this season (60m penalty???) nor of his utterly abrasive and uncompromising approach (shared by Brown IMO).

[tig1]

It will not stop players like the Armitages going, or the Floods, who feel that the cash incentive is a a worthwhile exchange for a fringe place in Englands thoughts.

But we are not talking about those players. We are talking about the key internationals.

After the world cup, some will take the leap i am sure, as their careers head into the latter years.