The Fall of Ben Youngs

[G.K]

So a 10 playing at 9 will have the edge over someone who is a proper 9? Hmm not sure that's the way it should be.

One thing is sure if Ben Youngs want's the England shirt back he'll need big performance today.

The title of the thread is however ridiculous.

[GT1]

I agree with you about the title GK!
Pienaar is a seriously good player & along with Jackson their going to be a handful for us to deal with imho

[fortysix]

I have followed YBY since he was at school with my children and as it stands he hasnt improved one jot over the last two years, box kicking apart....

A great pity, he really needs a guiding hand from a former top No 9

Pienaar, and others are just in a different league at present.

Hate to say it, but he will probably only realise his potential away from Welford Road, he has technical faults that really really need addressing..

AND he doesnt look as if he is 120% fit........................ against Treviso he was puffing like a billygoat after his one run.........!!

PS A very good local authority on the family says TY will stay and YBY will go after the WC..........

[youngtiger]

Pienaar, and others are just in a different league at present.

AND he doesnt look as if he is 120% fit........................ against Treviso he was puffing like a billygoat after his one run.........!!

Who would you include in the "others" in terms of talent? (Rather than current form, which is subject to change over a matter of weeks) I would say Pienaar, Fourie Du Preez, Will Genia, Morgan Parra, and arguably Mike Phillips and Aaron Smith (though I would argue that Phillips is not as technically accomplished and Aaron Smith lacks the ability to pose a threat around the fringes) are the only scrum halves who are better than him, though I could still argue against 3 of the other 4 when YBY is on top form (Genia being the exception as he is the full package). All 4 of those mentioned are world-class players, they're all also older than him.

I agree that he needs to continue to work on his game and improve, and that he is currently in a dip in form, and to help that he could probably do with a rest, especially given his busy Lions summer. (A few of the 4 home games against the bottom 4 clubs would do). But the other parts of your argument, stating that he hasn't developed at all ect. are simply nonsense. He's a very good player who could do with regaining some form, perhaps having a rest, and then come back fighting for the final 3rd of our season.

[bc]

I make no apologies for the title of this thread which seems to have upset many people! What else would you call the decline of a player with the ability of Ben Youngs? Instead of kicking on he has not only fallen behind players on the world scene but also the domestic scene as I have listed in the original post.
I think that last nights game summed everything up but more than happy to continue the debate with anyone - BY is showing no signs of improvement and was comprehensively outplayed by a fly-half cum scrum-half.
Before everyone gets excited again, I have no doubt he has the ability but there has to be something wrong to have such a marked decline in form for so long.

[sapajo]

I make no apologies for the title of this thread which seems to have upset many people! What else would you call the decline of a player with the ability of Ben Youngs? Instead of kicking on he has not only fallen behind players on the world scene but also the domestic scene as I have listed in the original post.
I think that last nights game summed everything up but more than happy to continue the debate with anyone - BY is showing no signs of improvement and was comprehensively outplayed by a fly-half cum scrum-half.
Before everyone gets excited again, I have no doubt he has the ability but there has to be something wrong to have such a marked decline in form for so long.

Ben Youngs should not be singled out as the scapegoat for Tigers current shortcomings. Pienaar won the game for Ulster but Ben Youngs did not lose it our team did.

[Isambard]

Kindly leave Ben Youngs alone.

[youngtiger]

..Instead of kicking on he has not only fallen behind players on the world scene but also the domestic scene as I have listed in the original post...
I think that last nights game summed everything up but more than happy to continue the debate with anyone - BY is showing no signs of improvement and was comprehensively outplayed by a fly-half cum scrum-half.

His form may have fallen slightly below those listed, but if you honestly think his ability has fallen below any of those mentioned, then you are seriously deluded. (I might let you get away with arguing for Care, but you'd still be wrong).

The part of your argument that I've highlighted in bold is plainly ridiculous, Pienaar was, according to many, the best player on the pitch, and is also arguably one of the top scrum halves in the world. Hardly embarrassing to be outplayed by such a player, especially when he's not in a particularly rich vein of form.

[rocktop51]

A patently ridiculous topic in my view - surely we should be behind our players rather than get on their backs. Sure - form dips and like all things and can go up and down but class stays. Ben is class. If he wasn't he wouldn't be a Lion

[Smudge]

A really stupid and crass topic.
Get off his back. We are all entitled to a view but this is patent rubbish.

As for him talking to a top Scrum half, are you forgetting his father Nick
was a top 9 with England and Tigers?

[jonnyatom5]

I don't agree fully with the 'Fall' of Ben Youngs, but he's definitely going through a sticky patch. The lad looks tired and slow. Mele on the other hand injects zip and pace into our game. I fear Ben's suffering from too much rugby (ala Parling) and fatigue. A good bench warming session for England could do him the world of good. I have every faith in Mele to steer the good ship Tigers if Ben goes off on international duties.

Saturday saw the whole team too slow and I'm afraid Ben added to this. I hope this doesn't become a mindset and we can play our selves out of this malaise or rest players to be fresher and sharper.

[leic]

Having read so much about Ben Youngs form this season and watched him, I really hope he gets dropped from the Six Nations, doesn't go to NZ and has a summer of the first in five years and I'm sure he would come back such a better player next season. He's played too much rugby it's obvious he's stale and needs a break. On his day he has so much talent.

[Noddy555]

I'm with bc on this, and I'll be surprised if BY even makes the England Bench on Saturday. I think Lancaster will start with Dickson with Care on the bench (if fit?).

[LE18]

Ben looks as though he has put on weight this season, have the club/he been trying to beef him up?

[sapajo]

Ben Youngs dropped by England tweeted by Alistair Eykyn