Worst player today...

[jgriffin]

Personally I think during the AIs, the 2nd row ought to be Slater & Kitchener, now Mafi is back at 6. I think Crane/Waldrom is 50/50 at 8.

Was it me, or did Slater take the captaincy today after Deacon was replaced (as Crane was replaced just after). Good long term plan.

At one point I noticed Slater go over and speak to the ref in the second half. He plays from the heart and should definitely be considered a future captain

Yes, I noticed that too. He was well fired up the whole game, similarly every game. To me, as repeated ad nauseam, vice captain (while Flood is present) and No 8 - he has the presence of an MJ growing.

[drc_007]

I'm also impressed by Slater and agree he has real leadership potential.

Can't help but feel he needs to focus on one position to become a nailed on starter.

[Maximus66]

Would agree with that, but I'd rather have him on the field as not. You can see the fire in his eyes.

I feel that the coaches are using him however possible at the moment while we are going through this sticky patch. He's been covering Mafi, who was covering Croft. We might now get to see him more regularly at lock now Steve is back and I definitely prefer him now to Deacs.

[RagingBull]

Difficult to judge - they were all about as bad as each other. The team played like clueless Muppets. How Cockers could leave TTTE on the bench in favour of Flakey Crane is totally beyond me. IMHO, last week's performance by TTTE would have sealed the No 8 shirt for the rest of the season. Owen Williams needs to find his mojo too. At Wasps last week he was nowhere near being in position to go for the late drop goal. David Mele was apopletic with him and rightly so. Come back Flood & Youngs - QUICK!!!

I thought TTE had a poor game couldn't control or protect the 9 at scrum didn't offer much else, trouble is with both TTE and Crane, they play so different games Crane a much better Ball handler, whereas Wladrom adds a bit of bosh in the attacking game, but both are flakey at times Crane can get selfish and miss tackle, Waldrom just doesn't hit the rucks and also lets the ball pop out of the scrum at the worse times.
Owen Williams doesn't need to find his mojo he just needs to be better managed which he prob would have been if the whole squad was fit.

[fentiger]

With regard to my original post: several have said we should not single out individual players, why? ISTR it has been normal practise on this forum for other players to be singled out for criticism, is it now said we shouldn't do this because I suggested the most senior player was rubbish?
How will the coaching staff approach it? You can bet there will be no punches pulled by them, those responsible will be taken to task, at least we must hope so, and hope that viewing via rose tinted glasses didn't happen yesterday. Yes, we are desperately short of fit players, however those players where we are most in need ie: in the backs have stepped up to the mark well: I give you Bowden, Mele, Williams (who although not covering himself in glory is doing well AND is trying hard), Hepetema (who has been handed the poisoned chalice).
We were, indeed, beginning to show signs of more impressive backs play until the jinx struck and I'm sure this will come good in the near future. But, and this is crucial, the most experienced team members must, at times like this, stand up and be counted. For my money Deacon simply hasn't/doesn't/won't do this.

[strawclearer]

Without wishing to sound like a business consultant, I tend to use the following formula when assessing performance:

Activity (marks out of 10) x Ability (marks out of 10) x Attitude (either 1 for good attitude or 0 for bad attitude).

On this basis, I was suitably impressed by Salvi, Slater, Mele and Bowden. Even Owen, who is yet to find his feet, didn’t score too badly.

Sadly, as a Captain, Deacon records a duck for me. Whilst Toby is top of my performance list on all 3 measures both as 10 and Captain, I agree that Slater looks the most promising future leader.

[jack]

Not sure I understand your system e.g 10 x 10 x 1 =100. Yes? but 8 x8 x 0 = ? (isn't any number to the power of 0 Zero?? Please enlighten me genuine case of non Mathematical understanding!!

[Bill W (2)]

Not sure I understand your system e.g 10 x 10 x 1 =100. Yes? but 8 x8 x 0 = ? (isn't any number to the power of 0 Zero?? Please enlighten me genuine case of non Mathematical understanding!!

Purely from a mathematical standpoint and without prejidice to the scoring syetem propose:

Anthing times (x) zero (0) is zero

Anything to the power (^) zero is 1.

Providing "anything" is finite.

[Hot_Charlie]

Just watched the match on the TV, and as Deacon is replaced, Nick Mullins (commentating) states that Ed Slater was now leading the team. So I think that confirms that one.

He's not in Lancaster's immediate plans, and, on recent evidence is a very early name on the team sheet, be it at lock or 6. With Allen out, it wouldn't do any long term harm to see him lead the team in a run of games.

[G.K]

Not sure I understand your system e.g 10 x 10 x 1 =100. Yes? but 8 x8 x 0 = ? (isn't any number to the power of 0 Zero?? Please enlighten me genuine case of non Mathematical understanding!!

Not your maths that are at fault it's the flawed system which ends up being heavily skewed by the final binary operator. Just hope the standard of analysis being applied by the coaches is somewhat better.

[Lincs Stu]

It always surprises me that nobody ever mentions playing Mafi (when fit) at No.8. He is quick, big and athletic, with decent hands. The best modern no.8's in the world (Read, Parisse, Spies and even Heaslip and Picamoles when on form) are cut from this type of cloth. At club level, the 8's making the headlines are Dickinson and Ewers, both of whom have some pace and athleticism about them. With Morgan and Vunipola in the England Squad, our two really do look very ordinary.

Mafi may not be in their league in terms of explosive athleticism, but he is the nearest we have.

Crane is simply too slow and cumbersome and does not get over the gain line or offload enough. Waldrom is better in loose play on faster grounds, but struggles to gain yards in tight situations. Neither can control the ball at the back of the scrum nor have any real athleticism!

I would prefer to see Slater remain at lock. It looks like all the hard yards and injuries are catching up with Louis Deacon and he should now drop behind Ed in the pecking order. I doubt Slater will ever make an international back row forward, but he certainly could make the grade at lock.

[mightymouse]

I like the idea of Mafi at 8 , however it is a specialised position, especially at the base and cannot just be taken up without a lot of work on the training ground.

Having said that - one of our issues seems to be control at the base from our existing 8s!!

[jonnyatom5]

Now's the time to stand up and be counted, not sit down and rest on past laurels, as Crane and Deacon seem to be doing. TTTE was the only person running any decent angles on the weekend and should be miles in front of Jordan, 2 steps and go to ground, Crane.

Owen Williams is sitting too deep and doesn't encourage the backs onto the ball. We're devoid of attacking structure and use the same old bash it through the forwards approach, all of which is very defendable, especially when we have NO offloading game. Fixable but needs sorting fast, otherwise we'll be slipping further down the table. Also think that Scotty has seen better days and we should've gone with Scully, he's got more passion and power about him.

[mol2]

Leadership is an issue when Flood is away.
Deacs doesn't seem to offer that and certainly isn't leading by example.
As a player it would be harsh to single him out but his leadership seems absent.
As individuals we were the better side - dominant at the scrum but failed to take advantage of that. Yes the ref could have been firmer with the repeated penalties and the recurrent off side. Pitch side we didn't get the impression that the captain was in the ear of the ref, however sometimes the ref makes it clear he doesn't want the captains to tell him what to do.
There were a lot of inexperienced players out there who were not functioning as a team. Blame the captain, the coach and injuries - it was always going to be difficult. We've lost to a poor Wasps side away and an out of form Quins side at home, so not good.

Of the experienced players who are certain of selection it's probably a big ask for Salvi as his head is usually buried at the bottom of a ruck.

Slater is probably the one but I'm not sure Cockers sees him as a regular starter.

Most of the backs are inexperienced and I'm not convinced full back or wing is close enough to the action to do the role.

[GT1]

If the ref doesn't take any notice of 24,000 assistant refs he's unlikely to listen to the players. Quins played as they normally do a quick off loading attacking game & when defending constantly offside, off their feet, on the wrong side etc & good luck to them if they get away with it!
We weren't good enough to cope with it this time but I fully expect Tigers to beat not only them but anyone else if(and it's a big IF) we can get our first 15 on the pitch!!!
What's more important is getting refs & assistants who don't miss as much as they did on Sat & a system that grades them according to their performance as it seems at the moment it doesn't matter how poor they are they're back out there the following weekend
As for captains Hamilton & Deacon & Crane should have been pointing out our concerns to the ref!