Squad Changes 2013-2014 Season & Transfer Rumours Thread

[jgriffin]

While kornboy can argue till the cows come home about pace, as a former 10.7w/21.5 100/200m man (in 1969) I can give both a sprinters and a BAAB coaches view - and I'm sorry but we DO lack pure speed. Thompstone is the one back who appears to have it. Manu doesn't, Tait doesn't (although he has the most devastating deception to his running) and none of the others comes close, although Flood is faster than most give credit.
Wade IMO is not faster but more elusive, as is May. Varndell has straight line speed and occasional good positioning.
Kornboy I feel has talked others down for the sake of argument.
HOWEVER straight line speed is not the same as rugby speed, which is as much about anticipation, throwing the tacklers off balance and running lines. That is what made Oz truly devastating - his speed of thought.

But you can only compare the players to there counterparts. You could argue that Manu has "pure speed" for a centre, there aren't many centres that come to mind that can out pace him. The point about rugby speed is a good one though, I would rather have a player with good rugby speed than a good speedster - Hamilton comes to mind, not the quickest by far but when he was on top form it was is rugby brain that made the difference.

There have been several players in th past e.g. JJ who are demonstrably faster in a straight line: however the opportunities in modern rugby - indeed for a long time - are for players who can ACCELERATE dramatically over 5-10m. Hence Manu can be caught by Geordan over 50m but will leave him for dead over 15m.

[FrontRowUnionMember]

Symons has signed for Tasman Makos (ITM Cup).

But has he signed just for the ITM Cup season? Doesn't that end not long after our season starts, so will he be coming back?

[Mersey Tiger]

The main ITM rounds of matches finish in mid October. I don't think that there are any play-offs (which could mean their season finishing end of October/ early November).
Apparently Aaron Mauger facilitated the move.
My guess is that it is Tigers taking an opportunity for Symons to get some good experience under his belt, before coming back more "battle-hardened" than if he just did "A" matches.
I stress that it is a guess - but Tigers did send a couple of players over to NZ earlier this season to get better experience. One was Balmain, and it looks like he benefited from this. (I cannot remember who the other player was - can any one confirm?).

[Crivvens]

If Manu got injured, God forbid, we would have the worst centre grouping in the Premiership.
Bar none...

You don't think Smith (who was playing the best rugby of his career last year, and let's not forget was being touted as a possible England international) paired with either Allen (England international) or Bowden (Crusaders alumni and Dan Carter foil) would be the envy of most other clubs in the league?

I've long thought you must be a WUM but this has confirmed it.

[fortysix]

No Cribbins I dont think we are the envy of the League with Allen Smith and Bowden...not at all !!!
So much faith in Bowden when apparantly Tigers think so much of him he is being sold to Sale. And Smith as a centre-joke on-he's only passed the :censored: ball five times in his entire life !! Ironically I think Smith might have made quite a competent No 15.........

As far as I am concerned Tigers should have the best Personel in the Premiership and when it comes to the backs----WE HAVENT!!!!! The forwards WE HAVE !!

[barwelltiger]

No Cribbins I dont think we are the envy of the League with Allen Smith and Bowden...not at all !!!
So much faith in Bowden when apparantly Tigers think so much of him he is being sold to Sale

He isn't being sold? There was a rumour sale wanted him! where is the report tigers want to get rid? In fact didn't cockers say he wasn't going in a interview?!

[barwelltiger]

No Cribbins I dont think we are the envy of the League with Allen Smith and Bowden...not at all !!!
So much faith in Bowden when apparantly Tigers think so much of him he is being sold to Sale

He isn't being sold? There was a rumour sale wanted him! where is the report tigers want to get rid? In fact didn't cockers say he wasn't going in a interview?!

[Crivvens]

No Cribbins I dont think we are the envy of the League with Allen Smith and Bowden...not at all !!!
So much faith in Bowden when apparantly Tigers think so much of him he is being sold to Sale. And Smith as a centre-joke on-he's only passed the :censored: ball five times in his entire life !! Ironically I think Smith might have made quite a competent No 15.........

As far as I am concerned Tigers should have the best Personel in the Premiership and when it comes to the backs----WE HAVENT!!!!! The forwards WE HAVE !!

I'm sure if we wanted we could have the best backs in the league. However, I'm also sure you're aware of the salary cap, which means that the money we spend on the best forwards in the league means we can't also spend the equivalent amount on the best backs.
Of course, we could reverse the roles, but then that would mean the best backs in the league would be feeding off scraps as the worst forwards wouldn't actually be winning much front foot ball.
Alternatively we could split it and have neither the best backs or the best forwards, but the odd stellar name in both. Course, that didn't do Saracens much good back when they signed the likes of Micheal Lynagh, Francois Pianaar, etc in the late 90's....

[Crivvens]

No Cribbins I dont think we are the envy of the League with Allen Smith and Bowden...not at all !!!
So much faith in Bowden when apparantly Tigers think so much of him he is being sold to Sale

He isn't being sold? There was a rumour sale wanted him! where is the report tigers want to get rid? In fact didn't cockers say he wasn't going in a interview?!

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant

[Darc Tiger]

Symons has signed for Tasman Makos (ITM Cup).

But has he signed just for the ITM Cup season? Doesn't that end not long after our season starts, so will he be coming back?

May well be true. But he is going to NZ for a bit. Would welcome him back, as he looked useful from what limited viewings I have had of him. Bit of a Jamie Roberts type.

[4071]

Symons has signed for Tasman Makos (ITM Cup).

Jesus is it open season for our young talent this season

1. Jonny Harris, 22, London Irish
2. Jimmy Stevens, 22, London Irish
10. George Ford, 20, Bath
12. Andy Symons, 21, Tasman Makos
13. Andy Forsyth, 22, Sale Sharks
15. Alex Lewington, 22, London Irish

Well... at least we know the Academy is working...

Sort of...

[Mersey Tiger]

I appreciate 4071's concerns about the number of promising Academy players moving on to other clubs, but I think that a few things need to be borne in mind.

It seems that Academy contracts take the players up to around the age of 22. This makes sense because it will have given them the time to see if they can, or are likely to make a "breakthrough" into the main squad/ team. Therefore when that contract ends there is a decision to be made by both parties. Some will move on because (a) Tigers do not think that they are good enough to deserve a new contract, (b) because there are deemed to be sufficient players ahead of them in their position(s), (c) Tigers can or are planning to recruit a better player from another club, or (d) there is someone else in the Academy who is thought to be better (and younger?).

Alternatively, Tigers want the player and offer him a new contract, but he turns it down because (i) he feels that he deserves more money, (ii) he feels there are existing players ahead of him and therefore he will not sufficient game time [Where did I get that idea from? ], (iii) he wants a change of scene, and (iv) another club comes in with a better offer [e.g. 12Trees].

Obviously more than one of each of the above can apply.

With regards to 4071's list I am fairly certain that George Ford and Jimmy Stevens were wanted by Tigers but they decided to leave - this is why Tigers have kept George Chuter and brought in the new Welsh 10. As I said in an earlier post, I suspect that Andy Symons will be back after his NZ sojourn. I also think that Andy Forsyth did not want to remain 3rd choice centre. The exodus from the Not Nots inevitably means that they will be sniffing around other clubs' up-and-coming players who want regular game time, and I see Jonny Harris and Alex Lewington seeing their moves as positive opportunities.

Therefore I do not think that Tigers are mismanaging their Academy or their Academy players - we should welcome the fact that there are so many good graduates.

We must remember that there can only realistically be a certain percentage of the Academy players that graduate each year and make it permanently into the Tigers main squad. The proof of the Academy's success is the number of Academy graduates just announced to go on the British & Irish Lions tour - FIVE! Absolutely brilliant.

And when we get a successful Academy graduate we as supporters naturally want him to play for Tigers all of his career - 10 more years? This then limits the opportunities for later Academy players - we cannot have it all ways.

The acid test is that with the exception of Tom Youngs (because he had to go away and change from Centre to Hooker) all of the other Academy graduates (and most of those in the past) have become regular 1st XV Squad members BEFORE they have reached the age of 22.

It's a hard fact of life that sorts the wheat from the chaff, but we as supporters need to appreciate that Tigers cannot keep everyone and the existing system appears to work very well.

[Mersey Tiger]

Separate issues:

Good news that Boris is back in training and could maybe step into the breach if injuries necessitate it over the final run of games.

Good news that Miles Benjamin is back training and should be fine for the start of preparing for the new season.

[Jon]

Looks like Poff is leaving Wasps at the end of the season. Has anyone seen if he's been confirmed anywhere yet?

I know we have Gibson as Salvi cover, but any chance of Poff coming up to WR?

http://blogs.espnscrum.com/latest-news/#Wasps confirm end-of-season transfers

[FrontRowUnionMember]

Looks like Poff is leaving Wasps at the end of the season. Has anyone seen if he's been confirmed anywhere yet?

I know we have Gibson as Salvi cover, but any chance of Poff coming up to WR?

http://blogs.espnscrum.com/latest-news/#Wasps confirm end-of-season transfers

I'm sure there was a story doing the rounds a few months back, that we were talking, or at least looking at him, as another genuine option at 7. May just have potential a move like that. Looking at the fact we had Jooste, Thorpe, Deacon and Noone on our books this year as fringe players, how many are expected to still be here next year having being replaced this far by just Gibson? Four out (Jooste has gone already obviously), leaving enough in the wage budget for two in?