12T or not 12T - the nation holds its breath....

[jonlin]

After throwing a bit of chaff down on comments about 36 and Ford,let us return to reality. Both would be redundant and worthless without the forwards. Here is Castro on his way with only a wimper on this forum. Namby pambies are two a penny.

[jonlin]

CASTRO NOW GOES AND SCORES A TRY. WHATS GOING WRONG

[drew12]

36 left Tigers because his agent got him more money at Gloucester,he will move on from Gloucester for the same reason. Has for his game yesterday good performance against a team, that is not exactly a world force in rugby at the moment. Manu or 36 at 12, for the answer to that ask the opposition dressing room. 36 would get the nod every time

Complete utter rubbish. He left because he wanted to play every week he could and not sit on the
bench He knew to play for England he needed more game time. Money wasn't the main issue.

[mike]

Of course money was not the main issue and Cockerill was being rather economical with the truth in saying it was . 12trees was offered merely a 12 month contract to do 'fillin' spots for Allen and Flood - no wonder he moved . My real gripe is that Cockerill and MOC did not appreciate his talents or the need for a different skill set which might improve our ability to win things again .

[tigerburnie]

Tigers have a way of doing things and not everyone is prepared to buy into it,some are patient and want to stay,some clearly see their futures elsewhere,that is market forces of the pro era,just like football.A team game is not about individuals,it's about a team gelling,there will be times where one individual will be chosen for the team rather than their own individual skill set.So there will be those left on the sidelines,players then make a decision. Our board and coaches rarely let a player go without offering a contract,now sometimes that is not acceptable to the player concerned and they move on,maybe time some fans did the same.

[mike]

When you have a great Club in decline , with no sign of winning significant Trophies the people in charge need to consider new ways of doing things to arrest that decline . Surely even to the most blinkered of the happy clappy brigade it is becoming clear that something needs to change . When you have young players of real talent you need to find ways of harnessing that talent rather than choking it .

[tigerburnie]

Whilst we keep getting to finals in the premiership, we are far from declining.
Man U don't win trophies every year,the European Cup is usually won by a different club each year.
Your expectations are clearly not based on any reasonable realities. Leinster are out of the Heineken,so are Toulouse,remember that club in decline knocked them out,along with the reigning Rabo champs.

[jonlin]

Must be newspaper people on the forum, cannot allow the truth to get in the way of a good story.

[WhitecapTiger]

When you have a great Club in decline , with no sign of winning significant Trophies the people in charge need to consider new ways of doing things to arrest that decline . Surely even to the most blinkered of the happy clappy brigade it is becoming clear that something needs to change . When you have young players of real talent you need to find ways of harnessing that talent rather than choking it .

You talk of people being blinkered, and maybe some are - and each have their own reasons for being so, but take a long hard look at yourself, a poster who seems to only ever pop up when there's something negative to say (not the only one granted).........Compared to those who decry the club/results/style/plan(s? - or lack of) etc BUT contribute the other way too when appropriate (even Wiggo and Smudge )

But then I suppose if you throw enough of it, some of it sticks. (Yes, I'm aware this works both ways)

For what it's worth I think Cockers got things amiss with 12T, but spot on with others, including Ford who has decided to go elsewhere. Cockers could've changed things in the Ford situation...he could've capitulated to the whims of a player, to the detriment of other players and then ultimately the club.

[jgriffin]

Agree with that 100%, Ford could not be accommodated without diminishing the club's authority. Any club worth its salt would say OK bye-bye matey.
BTW is jonlin a troll?

[Smurphswillgetya]

You talk of people being blinkered, and maybe some are - and each have their own reasons for being so, but take a long hard look at yourself, a poster who seems to only ever pop up when there's something negative to say (not the only one granted).........Compared to those who decry the club/results/style/plan(s? - or lack of) etc BUT contribute the other way too when appropriate (even Wiggo and Smudge )

But then I suppose if you throw enough of it, some of it sticks. (Yes, I'm aware this works both ways)

For what it's worth I think Cockers got things amiss with 12T, but spot on with others, including Ford who has decided to go elsewhere. Cockers could've changed things in the Ford situation...he could've capitulated to the whims of a player, to the detriment of other players and then ultimately the club.

Agree with you and JG's comments on this thread. Some people seem intent on blaming someone but in reality sometimes the coaches are wrong and sometimes players are wrong. Just because Billy does well does not necessarily mean Cockers was wrong from a Tigers perspective and if Ford leaves and fails to push on I would not see that as Cockers being vindicated. Just as an example I remember the calls for Will Skinner to be selected at 7 rather than Moody and how we would regret losing the next Neil Back. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! I also seem to recall Allen, Cipriani, Sinbad, Gerharty, Lamb were hailed as the next best thing since sliced bread and played a few games for England and then disappeared. In fact the only one to "re-invent" himself was Allen, and Sinbad was beginning to show his experience and talent consistently for his club before he got injured.

[TigerCam]

Of course money was not the main issue and Cockerill was being rather economical with the truth in saying it was . 12trees was offered merely a 12 month contract to do 'fillin' spots for Allen and Flood - no wonder he moved . My real gripe is that Cockerill and MOC did not appreciate his talents or the need for a different skill set which might improve our ability to win things again .

Cockers wouldn't know rugby talent if it hit in the face, just ask Dusty Hare. Just as Tonks was told he would never make it. Todays performance at Scarlets is another prime example of every thing that is bad about the Tigers and the Management are blinded by their own 'we are leicester' to see it

[Pete]

Quote: "he could've capitulated to the whims of a player,"

This is a remarkably silly comment to make when you know absolutely nothing about the situation.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

Cockers wouldn't know rugby talent if it hit in the face, just ask Dusty Hare. Just as Tonks was told he would never make it. Todays performance at Scarlets is another prime example of every thing that is bad about the Tigers and the Management are blinded by their own 'we are leicester' to see it

Tom Youngs might disagree about Cockers knowing talent - told he wouldn't make it as a centre and to switch to hooker, low and behold he's now an international

[mike]

With respect , I think you will find it was Heyneke Meyer who suggested the switch to Tom Y.