Ford to Bath and other reports

[G.K]

You may have a valid point regarding rotation policy, or rather lack of it, in some cases but as has been pointed out numerous times already it really does not apply in the case of Ford who has had a fair crack of the whip considering his age and level of performances (unlike 12T) in my opinion.

If Ford feels that is not enough then it's up to him, although it will remain to be seen whether he will actually get a great deal more game time at Barf. If Barf have indeed promised him this then it can only be because Donald is leaving and Ford will be preferrred over Heathcote (who in turn may then leave Barf). Different situation to that at Tigers.

[tigerburnie]

12 T's, Dan Hipkiss, Sam Vesty, Castro, Geoge Ford etc. Our coaches seem to be having some diffcultly managing and maintaining a large squad. They maintain that players do not come to Leicester Tigers for the money, well they don't come to keep the bench warm either.

Now the departure of some of the aforementioned may well be justified as a number of people have already enumerated, but it seems to me that its getting a regular occurence and how long before Ed Slater, Graham Kitchener, Dan Bowden etc become disenchanted with our lack of squad rotation policy?

Could you name another Premiership team that is constantly rotating players every week? because I don't see any evidence that it happens.
We have a large , quality squad and with only one game a week and the need to win every game,we have to put out our best team.
Those players you name are playing right now and if they are good enough,they will play again.

[sapajo]

To use a natural history analogy GF rightly wants to be at the top of the food chain but he has encountered a superior predator. His reaction is to take flight to pastures new rather than stand and fight his ground. The fact remains that he will never be the top dog until he has seen off the competition. He may run but he cannot escape this reality.

[The Boy Dave]

I maintain that were Tigers winning the big trophies then none of this would matter. Anyone who disagree's with the choices made has every right to question them if they pay their money. The Ford situation is different to others IMO. He has been a part of the England age grade system for as long as I can remember. He won IRB young player of the year and it seems as though these accolades have brought about an expectation that he is ready made to step up to the next level. He has had game time, no doubt about it. He has done quite well for such a young player and he has also had some off days just like everyone else but the expectation on both sides remains the same. Personally I blame the age grade system for situations like this one. From U16 through to U20 young lads are told they are good enough to play for England. Those that miss out on these type of honours learn to fight for it if they want it bad enough and other have ups and downs. Then you get the Ford's of the world who are lauded as rugby god's. I have seen these types kick the turf when they miss a penalty or look around at everyone else when points are conceded and yes I have watched closely and I have seen it. Most of them don't even know what a ruck is like! I was saddened when other players moved on and I do think more could have been made of some of them in a Tigers shirt but on this occasion I can see why Cockers has chosen to stand his ground.

[fortysix]

He has been advised to leave Leicester by everyone-His Father, the Saxons Management, Stancaster no doubt---its all in the National Press if you look hard enough.... They all say -he needs game time ...

[sapajo]

He has been advised to leave Leicester by everyone-His Father, the Saxons Management, Stancaster no doubt---its all in the National Press if you look hard enough.... They all say -he needs game time ...

Smoke and mirrors Fact is he has been given his fair share of game time and he has not performed in these chances given to him. His current form does not warrant more game time to the detriment of Tigers and TF. If GF was the better player then I would be more understanding and empathetic, despite what ever his disciples peddle.

[tigerburnie]

To use a natural history analogy GF rightly wants to be at the top of the food chain but he has encountered a superior predator. His reaction is to take flight to pastures new rather than stand and fight his ground. The fact remains that he will never be the top dog until he has seen off the competition. He may run but he cannot escape this reality.

That's a good way of putting it.

[Eagle 50]

To me it was highly likely after last season that the coaches would be forced to choose between Ford and Flood. I just couldn't imagine either putting up with benching most games, sharing the role and being the second choice 10. I can see that RC has tried to keep both, prioritising Flood as his preferred starter and introducing Ford whenever he can. The strategy hasn't worked and Ford is off to Bath. I know it's not the popular view but I would have gone with George as my first choice 10 this season even knowing that it risked losing Floody. I personally think that Ford is pure class, that he'd very quickly develop to be better than Toby and that our long term interest would have been better served by prioritising him. I appreciate that the majority here and the coaches think otherwise.

[bluntiger]

To me it was highly likely after last season that the coaches would be forced to choose between Ford and Flood. I just couldn't imagine either putting up with benching most games, sharing the role and being the second choice 10. I can see that RC has tried to keep both, prioritising Flood as his preferred starter and introducing Ford whenever he can. The strategy hasn't worked and Ford is off to Bath. I know it's not the popular view but I would have gone with George as my first choice 10 this season even knowing that it risked losing Floody. I personally think that Ford is pure class, that he'd very quickly develop to be better than Toby and that our long term interest would have been better served by prioritising him. I appreciate that the majority here and the coaches think otherwise.

Our tradition is clear to the players - you have to EARN the shirt, it can never just be given, that would be the wrong message to send out to the whole squad.

Ford, in his 9 starts has not come anywhere near to earning the first-choice 10 shirt, not even close actually.

I liked the 'survival of the fitest through natural selection' analogy. He is moving to a weaker pride to try to become top dog, and at 19 that is hardly a quality that bodes well for his future! And what must young Heathcote be thinking?

[Pete]

I agree with Eagle 50.

Flood is a very good 10 and obviously intent on playing for England regularly. That is how it should be.

Ford is already almost his equal (not quite) and is also intent on playing for England regularly. He is only a year or so younger than Farrel who is currently the 10 in post so he can't afford to hang around.

Both Flood and Ford need to play regularly for their club to gain England recognition, which means one has to leave for pastures new.

I agree with Eagle 50 because I too believe Ford will soon surpass both Flood and Farrel if he regularly gets the game time he needs. Sharing with Flood is insufficient for both at this time.

I look forward to seeing my prediction of some months ago being proved correct maybe next year: Ford, Twelvetrees and Manu playing together for England. Add in Ben Youngs and hopefully Varndell and it would be even better.

[sapajo]

Add in Ben Youngs and hopefully Varndell and it would be even better.

Varndell will never get back in the England team, as his attacking threat is neutered by his suspect defence.

[Smudge]

Varndell will never get back in the England team, as his attacking threat is neutered by his suspect defence.

Dear Oh dear,talk about "give a dog a bad name" etc.

TV's defence isn't suspect now, even if it was in the past (and opinions differ on that).
Good tackling can be coached just as attacking flair can't.
I wonder why he wasn't coached at Tigers? {Rhetorical)
It's amazing how short memories are on here. I recall him being cheered to the echo when he was the top scorer in the prem.
Playing outside Manu, he would be again.

[Cardiff Tig]

Varndell will never get back in the England team, as his attacking threat is neutered by his suspect defence.

Dear Oh dear,talk about "give a dog a bad name" etc.

TV's defence isn't suspect now, even if it was in the past (and opinions differ on that).
Good tackling can be coached just as attacking flair can't.
I wonder why he wasn't coached at Tigers? {Rhetorical)
T's amazing how short memories are on here. I recall him being cheered to the echo when he was the top scorer in the prem.
Playing outside Manu, he would be again.

It may well be a rhetorical question but I'll answer it anyway - Varndell had attitude problems at Tigers, he may well have scored a lot of tries (something we haven't actually missed if you look at the stats) but he also got shipped off to Bedford by Pat Howard because of his attitude.

[MJB]

....... They maintain that players do not come to Leicester Tigers for the money, well they don't come to keep the bench warm either.

.........how long before Ed Slater, Graham Kitchener, Dan Bowden etc become disenchanted with our lack of squad rotation policy?

It's never been a secret that Tigers do not have a squad rotation policy. Incoming players know this when they sign on the dotted, so if they're not prepared to earn the shirt they should go elsewhere. No-one has a divine right to start as every match when fit, especially Ford judging by his performances so far this season.

[tigerburnie]

Tom scored a lot of tries by catching Andy Goodes cross kicks and falling over the line. He is now a better player than he was with us,but the England camp don't want him, I doubt he will play for England again.Which shows up the EPS weakness of not picking a player in current form as they are not allowed to.
Toms last ditch tackle to keep the pests in the Premiership last season was top draw,he didn't do that with us and I don't think that attitude can be taught, you have to find that inside you. He still has poor positioning issues and does not tackle head on,he allows players to pass him and he tackles from the side or from behind a lot, that often allows the tackled player to pass,keeping the attack alive.
I still think he would be a better athlete than a rugby player.