How to improve Leicester Football Club

[jgriffin]

Hence my stance that RC represents a necessary continuity, and new coaches should replace MOC.
My only cloud on the horizon re CoCkers is the number of ex-players who aren't very keen on him, some of whom are intelligent critics (not Moody).

[Crumblies]

PureBob wrote... I really appreciate your contributions here Crumblies but you have not convinced me that kicking out RC would be any more than an emotional reaction to the hurt of not winning anything since 2010.

Whether or not I convinced you is not the point. You asked for specifics I gave you specifics as have others, you asked for alternatives I gave you alternatives as have others. You cannot now claim that no one was able to provide either just because you happen to disagree with some or all of those!

[Smudge]

Crumblies Wrote:-

Quote:
PureBob wrote... I really appreciate your contributions here Crumblies but you have not convinced me that kicking out RC would be any more than an emotional reaction to the hurt of not winning anything since 2010.




Whether or not I convinced you is not the point. You asked for specifics I gave you specifics as have others, you asked for alternatives I gave you alternatives as have others. You cannot now claim that no one was able to provide either just because you happen to disagree with some or all of those!

Top post Crumblies. Agree with every word.

[tigerburnie]

If you are in a job for 3 years and your weaknesses exposed, ways you can improve identified, and pointed out to you ad-nauseum over those three years and you singularly fail to implement those improvements isn't that a good enough reason to fire someone?

Have you joined the board or staff of the Leicester Tigers crumblies?
Have you personnaly spoken to Richard Cockerill and given him the benefit of your wisdom?
No?
Then how does he know it is being pointed out to him?
Do you think Managers/Coaches and DOR's read forums full of advice from unidentified,possibly totally unqualified people who purport to be fans,but we only have their word for that?
Do you think a big business like a professional rugby club can be run from a forum, a message board, where hidden keyboard warriors can spout anything they like?
It is your opinion that weakness is exposed, that is all, it is your opinion.You are entitled to your opinion,but that does not make it right. It does not mean that the club has to act because you say so.
Now the AGM of the club is not far away, if you are a shareholder,put forward your concerns to the board there and then you can be sure that the board and the management will then know your position.Put forward your opinions and their solutions and let them know how badly the club is doing,thing is you can't do it anonemously,maybe BillW will sit along side you for support.

[Smudge]

I'm with Crumblies here.

It is your opinion that weakness is exposed, that is all, it is your opinion.You are entitled to your opinion,but that does not make it right. It does not mean that the club has to act because you say so.

He is entitled to his opinion as he pays his money and attends the games.
Your opinion, often quoted on here, is also, just that, opinion.
The fact that you can't see the wood for the trees is evident.
Cockers has said in numerous interviews that he expects to get sacked one day.
Hopefully that will come sooner rather than later.
We live in hope.

[h's dad]

I'm with Crumblies here.

It is your opinion that weakness is exposed, that is all, it is your opinion.You are entitled to your opinion,but that does not make it right. It does not mean that the club has to act because you say so.

He is entitled to his opinion as he pays his money and attends the games.
Your opinion, often quoted on here, is also, just that, opinion.
The fact that you can't see the wood for the trees is evident.
Cockers has said in numerous interviews that he expects to get sacked one day.
Hopefully that will come sooner rather than later.
We live in hope.

Sometimes you have the most faithful and loyal of dogs.
That dog will grow old and the kindest thing may be to take it out and shoot it (or take it to the vets or whatever you do with old dogs nowadays).
But you never ever ever hope for it.

Cockerill, right or wrong, is a Tiger through and through and doesn’t deserve that comment.

[TigerAlex]

The fact that you can't see the wood for the trees is evident.

I believe that is your opinion. There is no fact there.

I could say that you're a stubborn so-and-so with an obvious grudge against Cockerill which clouds your judgement and renders you unable to see things with any sort of objectivity. I may think this, but you will doubtless deny this statement- clearly it is no more true than your above statement.

Your opinion is not the same as tigerburnie's (or my) opinion and, to be honest, I'm getting a bit fed up of the implication from you and others that the reason I don't agree with you is because I'm too stupid.

[Smudge]

Feel free to disagree by all means, that is what a forum is for.
As for RC, I am sure he is a lovely fellow to share a drink with and he's kind to his wife and family.
You are very wrong if you believe I have a grudge against him personally.
My feelings are entirely slanted towards our DOR for all the reasons I and many others have listed.
After three and a half years I have lost all confidence in him and his ability to take us anywhere further than where we are.
There are some fair people on the light side who are willing to see another point of view and discuss it.
There are others who bury their heads in the sand and won't hear a word against him. Despite chapter and verse and a
growing tide of unease at the way we are fading from our long held position as England's top club.
I won't/don't call you stupid if you don't see our point of view but if you can't detect that everything is not right at the club,
I do have to wonder where you are looking.

[Purebob]

Crumblies

You took me to task over my wrong final statement that implied that there had been no detailed reasons given for firing RC, but you did not comment on my responses to your points. In the name of debate could you have a read and offer comment please ?

Regarding your suggestions for improvement Crumblies :

Recruitment - too many Mr Averages who then do not make the grade viz Grindall, Staunton, Robinson, Woods etc, or recruitment in areas we do not need i.e. how many wingers have we bought in in the last 3 years and how many do we need particularly given our style of play bish-bash-bosh up the middle?
Game plan - bash it up the middle, go to ground secure the ball then release and go again, oh thats not working, we are running in to brick walls, tell you what lets work on it a bit harder! Is it any accident that on Saturday when we had a two man overlap in the backs we decide to get into an arm wrestle with their forwards?

I do not agree we played "bish-bash-bosh up the middle" rugby in the last two seasons when we scored more backs tries than anybody else by a large margin.
I do not agree that all the wingers bought in have been poor: Horacio was amazing, Morris is at last getting the chance to prove himself, Bubbles is slow but savvy, Benjamin and Tait didn't deliberately get busted. Thompstone shows promise IMO. I am no fan of Goneva so far but others are. So as duffer wingers go we're talking Lee Robinson right? The salary cap makes it hard to spend a lot of money on many "star" players.

Replacements The latest casualty - What has Kitchener done wrong this season? In all the games I've seen he has been one of if not our standout player. Deacon after a serious long term injury comes back, plays 20mins one week, the next the whole game, Kitchener cannot get off the bench, despite the fact we are loosing. Bowden, Thorpe, Young are all these people injured? if so where and when and for how long, because I'm not convinced even if they were/are fit our coaching team would pick them. Our coaches would sooner pick a player who has been out injured for over a year and play the best No 8 in the country at 7 rather than pick someone knew to the club. Why did RC recruit Thorpe if he felt that way?

I agree with this. RC needs to rotate and replace more intelligently.

Alternatives We need the best, we are the Manchester United of Rugby remember? Some sugestions outside Leicester DOR Nick Mallett, Jake White, John Kirwan. If we are determined to remain incestuous Clive Woodward, Martin Johnson. Backs coach Again if we have to keep it the 'Leicester Way' Aaron Mauger as a player he had the best of all attributes, not only to play well himself but to get others around him playing well, if he could translate that into coaching he'd do for me.

I cannot recall any of those coaches having to manage a team with the constraints that premiership sides have now: salary cap, international callups etc. I think our squad would look different and our trophy cabinet would look different if RC could call upon the resources Mallett had at Stade Francais for example, or White as Boks coach ( has White got any club coaching experience btw ?). Johnno and SCW have less coaching experience than RC does.

[tigerburnie]

After three and a half years I have lost all confidence in him and his ability to take us anywhere further than where we are.


"Smudge you may have lost confidence, but to take us further than where we are? In those three and a half years we have been to three playoff finals,winning one of them,finished first,then second twice in the league.We are at present still in the Heineken Cup, where exactly do you expect us to be?"


There are others who bury their heads in the sand and won't hear a word against him. Despite chapter and verse and a
growing tide of unease at the way we are fading from our long held position as England's top club.


"What growing tide, half a dozen disgruntled fans on here doesn't make a tiny ripple. We use the facts to support our position,but you continue in exactly the same vein.You don't change the record,even after a good victory and then accuse others of having their heads in the sand"

I won't/don't call you stupid if you don't see our point of view but if you can't detect that everything is not right at the club,
I do have to wonder where you are looking.

"What exactly is going wrong at the club? We have more season ticket holders,still getting good gates for games,judging by the posts on here,a good travelling support too. We are in the top four,where as last year at this time we were in the bottom four. What is wrong? Players are not queueing up to leave,some have extended their contracts. The board saw fit to extend our DOR's contract,so what is it that you can see that is so wrong?
Last year we started very poorly due to a variety of reasons,world cup,injuries etc. this year we are doing better,so why do you still insist on saying we should change our coaching staff mid way through a season where we are doing well?

[The Boy Dave]

I think folk are just getting a little bored. We are as you generalise "doing better" in comparison to last season. As a club we are pretty solid. Solid as a rock in fact, but rock's are boring! I have read comparitives regarding teams of the past and present and how we are more consistent nowadays, that is true. Many a day in the past our team used to put on a horror show but it was more good than bad and when it was good it was often great! Alot of people don't foresee that same level of greatness being achieved in the near furure and that is the sum of it IMO!

[tigerburnie]

I think folk are just getting a little bored. We are as you generalise "doing better" in comparison to last season. As a club we are pretty solid. Solid as a rock in fact, but rock's are boring! I have read comparitives regarding teams of the past and present and how we are more consistent nowadays, that is true. Many a day in the past our team used to put on a horror show but it was more good than bad and when it was good it was often great! Alot of people don't foresee that same level of greatness being achieved in the near furure and that is the sum of it IMO!

You are spot on with this, I don't say we are doing great,I use the recent facts to support keeping our current staff, I don't say we are setting the world on fire.
This time last year I asked we be patient and when we have a full compliment we will raise our game, this we did with a vengence.Losing the final was :censored: awfull,but we have to learn from it.
Now I believe with the squad we have we can do the same this year,from a stronger position and hope to win the final should we get there.
I don't wear rose tinted glasses,but I do defend my club,players and management if I feel they deserve defending, at present I believe they do.
Had we stayed at the bottom of the league last year,had we lost the LV final against the Sinners,were we stuck at the bottom of the league this year,I too would be no doubt voicing my concerns. I would not be calling for people to be sacked,but I would be unhappy.
We did well last year,we are doing well this year and if the powers that be make the Heineken Cup a level playing field,I expect we will do well in that.
I don't demand we win every year, I have the desire that we win something every year,but I consider it unrealistic to expect to see Barbarians style rugby every week with us winning all the time.

[Crumblies]

PureBob wrote... Crumblies

You took me to task over my wrong final statement that implied that there had been no detailed reasons given for firing RC, but you did not comment on my responses to your points. In the name of debate could you have a read and offer comment please ?

Then PureBob wrote...I do not agree that all the wingers bought in have been poor: Horacio was amazing,

Agreed, remind me again who didn't offer him a new contract and let him go? Obviously Cockerill didn't think he was as amazing as you!

PureBob you keep asking questions where you have predetermined the response, so there is no point trying to have a reasoned debate!

[Crumblies]

If you are in a job for 3 years and your weaknesses exposed, ways you can improve identified, and pointed out to you ad-nauseum over those three years and you singularly fail to implement those improvements isn't that a good enough reason to fire someone?

Have you joined the board or staff of the Leicester Tigers crumblies?
Have you personnaly spoken to Richard Cockerill and given him the benefit of your wisdom?
No?
Then how does he know it is being pointed out to him?
Do you think Managers/Coaches and DOR's read forums full of advice from unidentified,possibly totally unqualified people who purport to be fans,but we only have their word for that?
Do you think a big business like a professional rugby club can be run from a forum, a message board, where hidden keyboard warriors can spout anything they like?
It is your opinion that weakness is exposed, that is all, it is your opinion.You are entitled to your opinion,but that does not make it right. It does not mean that the club has to act because you say so.
Now the AGM of the club is not far away, if you are a shareholder,put forward your concerns to the board there and then you can be sure that the board and the management will then know your position.Put forward your opinions and their solutions and let them know how badly the club is doing,thing is you can't do it anonemously,maybe BillW will sit along side you for support.

1. So members contributing to this forum are only unqualified, keyboard warriors, who only purport to be fans and should not be taken seriously.

2. Do you expect these rantings and ravings to be taken seriously?

[tigerburnie]

A clear and precise comment is what I see, if you think it's a rant, so be it.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you and I think,it's the board you need to impress and as you only own up to being an "unqualified keyboard warrior who purports to being a fan",you won't be addressing the AGM with your concerns then?