RWC 2015 venues.. no welford road??

[Tigerpete]

While hoping that Gloucester get into the final set of RWC grounds, I would be really interested in understanding all of the boxes that they ticked that apparently WR doesn't......

[Jose]

While hoping that Gloucester get into the final set of RWC grounds, I would be really interested in understanding all of the boxes that they ticked that apparently WR doesn't......

That's a really simple one....the pitch is 95m long rather than 91m. That's it. Which obviously prevents a proper rugby game being played at WR, as demonstrated by the 1000s of games played there over the last 100+ years. It's just a shame all Tigers fans are so dense as to have never realised that it can't be a proper game of rugby played on the pitch and how much that should obviously have detracted from their enjoyment of whatever the game is that they're watching!

[thebearisstilldeano]

That game wasn't actually during the RWC. It was an RWC qualifier in 1998 as England hadn't qualified automatically for the 1999 tournament.[/quote]
Correct - and I bow to your superior memory Sir(and to that of my Missus who also reminded me it was a warm up game). Don't think it alters the point being made about matches being held in football stadia in areas where rugby union is not a significant sport though.

[APJones]

Every year Silverstone hosts the F1 Grand Prix Every year they build temporary stands to cater for 120,000 fans
We only need another 6000 seats to get to the RFUs magic 30,000 Number and the Crumbie wooden benches do need updating a bit don't they.

Besides that the Olypmic stadium will be rubbish to watch a game at , the pitch is 30m away from the stands because of the running track and the round shape of the stadium

And why are the RFU giving the wendyball grounds the oppportunity to make money , their grounds segregate fans . don't allow alcohol in the stands and not where the true rugby fans want to be.

WR will be fine for the lesser teams to play at - I can't see Peru v Namibia for example attracting huge crowds.

[tig1]

Very disappointing, but hardly a surprise.

The last European RWC in France 2007 (which was excellent) was played entirely in larger stadium with the smallest capacity at around 34000. Games were played either at the National stadiums in France, Scotland and Wales, in addition to a group of football stadiums and municiple stadiums at places like Lyon, Lens,St. Etienne, Nantes and Bordeaux. There were no club stadium on the list, unless you consider Toulouse Municiple. The tournament averaged just under 48000 per match attendance.

The game was different back in 1991 when games in France ŵere played at the likes of Beziers, Bayonne, Grenoble, Brive and Agen.

Wouldnt it just be far better to take the attitude that the RWC is simply another top class event to go along and enjoy in The UK with your friends and family, rather than focusing on which patch of grass the game is being played on. If the French can do it.......

[jgriffin]

I do not see the WC2015 repeating the French experience, partly due to the different nature of French and English societies. What is clearly the case is that the organisers are in hock to the IRB to have a very profitable WC. We know they have missed a potential trick, but that really isn't worth us worrying about. I am far more worried that England won't do very well.

[tig1]

What puzzles me is why the RFU needed to work on a model of selling 3 million tickets to win the bid ?

No other World Cup has ever been based on such a high number. Only one has exceeded 2 million and that was 2007.

I assume the sales number is just a financial balance to show a provisional profit against the very high costs of running the event.

[physiodan]

I am a little confused, and this can occur. Our pitch is 4m too short so I look at the IRB regulations which only state it cannot exceed 100m. So I think, How deep does the ingoal area need to be, and all this states is that it cannot exceed 22m. Could tigers move the posts to increase the playing field and have small ingoal area's?

[Dave Angel]

Every year Silverstone hosts the F1 Grand Prix Every year they build temporary stands to cater for 120,000 fans
We only need another 6000 seats to get to the RFUs magic 30,000 Number and the Crumbie wooden benches do need updating a bit don't they.

Besides that the Olypmic stadium will be rubbish to watch a game at , the pitch is 30m away from the stands because of the running track and the round shape of the stadium

And why are the RFU giving the wendyball grounds the oppportunity to make money , their grounds segregate fans . don't allow alcohol in the stands and not where the true rugby fans want to be.

WR will be fine for the lesser teams to play at - I can't see Peru v Namibia for example attracting huge crowds.

1. But where will these extra 6000 temporary seats fit? Silverstone is a large airfield able to accommodate 120,000 temporary seats. WR is a small rugby ground enclosed on all sides unable to accomodate an additional 6,000 seats!

2. I agree the Olympic stadium won't be as good visually due to the distance from the pitch but I assume they are using it because of the capacity, not because of the proximity to the players. WR & OP were not exactly in direct competition amongst the potential grounds. WR & King Power were.

3. The RFU are giving suitable grounds the opportunity to host matches. The fact that they are football grounds wasn't a deciding factor. I'm sure they would have considered RL grounds & any other sporting venue too if they were large enough.
Also, football grounds only segregate fans & ban alcohol for football matches. Anyone who has been to a Tigers away game at a football ground (Wasps, Irish, Sale etc) will know that fans aren't segregated & that alcohol is allowed at your seat. Therefore that argument is without any substance.

4. I can't see Peru v Namibia attracting any crowd at all as Peru aren't in RWC2015. However, the "minnow" matches can actually attract crowds of over 30,000 on occasion.



thebearisstilldeano, your point about playing RWC games in RL heartlands falls down slightly (though not entirely) when you look at the attendance of the one RWC game played in Huddersfield during the 1999 RWC (NZ v Italy) of 22,032 in a 24,000 capacity stadium compared to the one 1999 RWC game played at WR (Tonga vs Italy) of 10,244 in a 16,815 capacity stadium.

Even with the Tigers faithful, WR was still only 2/3rds full for a RWC game.


Physiodan, yes they could reduce the size of the in-goal area, but that would risk player safety due to insufficient run-off area, especially as WR has rigid pitch-side hoardings at the end of the in-goals. I think player safety is important, though you may disagree.

[physiodan]

Physiodan, yes they could reduce the size of the in-goal area, but that would risk player safety due to insufficient run-off area, especially as WR has rigid pitch-side hoardings at the end of the in-goals. I think player safety is important, though you may disagree.

I agree with player safety and think having 1-2m ingoal area is stupid but there just seems to be no regualtion. The total field size at the KingPower is only 102m giving 3.5m for the ingoal area with a 100m pitch. Shame there is no option for the RWC to use artificial surfaces to extend the pich at the clubhouse end.

[Jay C]

Just to focus on the figures the RFU are bandying about :

Lets suppose they do sell 2.9m tickets and they "only" have to cover the cost of the £80m guarantee to the IRB (ie they don't pay for the stadia hire, or make a profit, or whatever) ....

.... then the average cost of a ticket would be £27.50

That's as much as I'd pay to see two major nations playing, but it's eye watering for a Japan v Namibia game, don't you think ?

(Yes there will be plenty of higher priced tickets for corporates, etc, but there are plenty of other costs to be covered as well - I've just used the figures available to illustrate the point!)


Okay, lets look at this 2.9m tickets figure and play lies, damn lies and statistics again :

Lets suppose that the QF, SF, Final & 3rd place play off all sell out at Twickers/Old Trafford/Millenium/Wembley - that gives approx 620k tickets sold.

Lets also assume that England manage to sell out their pool games at Old Trafford/St James Park/Olympic Stadium/Villa Park (if they are real about touring the country!) and Wales sell out the Millenium for their pool games - thats another approx 550k tickets sold.

That means that ALL the other matches combined (only 32 left as its four pools of 5 teams) need to sell an AVERAGE of 54,000 tickets to hit the magic 2.9 million - that's not only unrealistic, its a figure that only 5 stadia on the list can manage

Either the RFU or I seem to be getting our sums VERY wrong !

[Dave Angel]

It isn't just the length, the pitch isn't wide enough either. It is 3.5m narrower than the dimensions agreed with IRB for the RWC.

[Dave Angel]

Just to focus on the figures the RFU are bandying about :

Lets suppose they do sell 2.9m tickets and they "only" have to cover the cost of the £80m guarantee to the IRB (ie they don't pay for the stadia hire, or make a profit, or whatever) ....

.... then the average cost of a ticket would be £27.50

That's as much as I'd pay to see two major nations playing, but it's eye watering for a Japan v Namibia game, don't you think ?

(Yes there will be plenty of higher priced tickets for corporates, etc, but there are plenty of other costs to be covered as well - I've just used the figures available to illustrate the point!)


Okay, lets look at this 2.9m tickets figure and play lies, damn lies and statistics again :

Lets suppose that the QF, SF, Final & 3rd place play off all sell out at Twickers/Old Trafford/Millenium/Wembley - that gives approx 620k tickets sold.

Lets also assume that England manage to sell out their pool games at Old Trafford/St James Park/Olympic Stadium/Villa Park (if they are real about touring the country!) and Wales sell out the Millenium for their pool games - thats another approx 550k tickets sold.

That means that ALL the other matches combined (only 32 left as its four pools of 5 teams) need to sell an AVERAGE of 54,000 tickets to hit the magic 2.9 million - that's not only unrealistic, its a figure that only 5 stadia on the list can manage

Either the RFU or I seem to be getting our sums VERY wrong !

Games featuring teams like NZ, Australia & SA will easily exceed that attendance figure if hosted at large enough venues. I would expect all of Ireland's games to sell out (or be very close to it) due to their geographical proximity & the Irish travelling support.

That would bring the required average attendance of the other games down considerably.


And is £27.50 really the most you would be willing to pay to watch two major nations playing in an RWC pool game?!? That would barely have bought you a ticket to Italy vs Tonga in the 1999 RWC pool game when WR last hosted a full international! Thankfully there are plenty of other rugby fans out there who would be willing to pay far more than you would! £27.50 is far from "eye watering" for the cost of a full international RWC test match ticket, even if it does feature two minnows.

[jack]

So we are really the "Small field in Leicester" ?

[Kinoulton]

I recall talking to some international cricketers who said that players touring England were always disappointed when the venues didn't include Trent Bridge.

Trent Bridge isn't huge or posh, but it has history, and I'm sure many rugby players will feel the same about Welford Road.

If you're a rugby player you want to have a once in a lifetime chance to play at a busy Welford Road and not a sparsely populated Villa Park.