Who cares about "green" issues?

[tig1]

Whetever an individual believes is the cause of the current climate changes and climate extremes, the impacts are really a bit frightening.

In the 8 Months of 2012 alone, around 140 MILLION MTS of grain production has now been lost in droughts in Brazil, Argentina, US, Ukraine, Russia and now the failed India Monsoon.

To put 140 Million million mts in perspective its more or less equivalent to the entire EU annual grain production. Gone in 8 months.

[Kinoulton]

I'm no farmer, but the odd rain patterns and a surprising lack of sun (even though it's quite warm)has caused a lack of hay up here.

Of course it's got to grow, harvested when it's ready, and dried. Nothing is going right this year. Our hay supplier said he could do do little about anything right now that he may as well be on holiday.

[fleabane]

I'm currently sitting up on the north west coast of Scotland.

Lots of shoals of sandeels and mackerel, but no dolphins or minke whales to eat them at what is the prime time for cetaceans up here. Minkes disappeared at the start of June, orcas seen in July were a pod from Orkney, the puffins went 6 weeks early as did the gannets. Nothing is in the right place at the right time, and there is evidence that the Gulf Stream, which should hit this coast and The Summer Isles, has shifted northwards as the ocean conveyor slows as a result of the excessive fresh water melt from the Arctic and Greenland.

The effect on weather systems, and consequently on marine habitat and agriculture are only just now starting to be felt.

[Kinoulton]

Blimey! I didn't know that was going on. Thanks.

But if it rains a bit in London, then I'm sure the BBC news will be full of it.

[Bill W (2)]

Feast to famine has been going on for 1000's of years. Not to mention Pestilence. Why should it change?

[Kinoulton]

Way back in the 60s a well known nature-watcher on TV commented on the phrase "the balance of nature" by saying there was rarely an actual balance.

Things change, shift and move constantly.

Of course there is a symbiosis whereby bees like to have a go at the pollen and in doing so help the plants to spread, but really, there is no balance as such.

However, we are without doubt, strangling this planet with a ridiculous over population which cannot be sustained.

[Bill W (2)]

However, we are without doubt, strangling this planet with a ridiculous over population which cannot be sustained.

I have a list of many we would be better off without.

Do you?

Should we compare notes?

[tig1]

Feast to famine has been going on for 1000's of years. Not to mention Pestilence. Why should it change?

It shouldnt, Bill.

But the debate really is whether this time around it is being driven by excess human consumption and the emission of carbon, methane and a myriad of other pollutants and toxins that arise from a population of 7 billion all trying to live middle class standards, in a world of finite resources.

Logically, i would believe that was the case. Others argue all is fine and its natural climatic change.

Unfortunately i fear it is an irrelevant debate. Even if it is caused by humans, the requirements to make meaningful change are so drastic to the recognised way of modern life that they cant be done.

[Bill W (2)]

. Even if it is caused by humans, the requirements to make meaningful change are so drastic to the recognised way of modern life that they cant be done.

My reply to Kinny was somewhat lighthearted.

This one isn't.

Starvation and/or disease are one solution. I did think a few years back that AIDS was "natures" solution to the problem.

A World War? There are still several "flashpoints" that could trigger one.

[tig1]

I think there is little doubt the world is heading towards a resource confrontation, Bill.

Maybe its food, or water, or oil, who knows. It could be any or all.

There really are only 3 major resources that matter for humans. They are quality air, clean water and fertile land. It would seem that all 3 of those are under threat, regardless of the cause.

Oh well, we may aswell just enjoy the rugby !

[CJ]

back to the concerns about climate change, if it exists: the little egret that visits 'my' river in the winter has arrived already. Does he or she know something I don't?

[Bill W (2)]

back to the concerns about climate change, if it exists: the little egret that visits 'my' river in the winter has arrived already. Does he or she know something I don't?

He/she might get an awful shock if we have an Indian Summer!

[biffer]

I work in a closely related field (I'm involved with renewable / low carbon energy researchers at Universities) so I get access to a lot of research - and to people who actually understand it better than me or probably most people on here.

The next IPCC report is due in 2015 I think. This one is going to be a prediction of disaster. The previous reports have all had a set of scenarios for future consumption, renewable energy take up, growth, population, etc, and the report's predictions have usually been based on a middle of the road scenario where we manage to cut emissions a bit, introduce some carbon reduction and efficiency, etc, but don't all go off and live in the trees. However, reading the latest observations it looks like the path we're taking is worse than the very bad scenario in the previous reports. That would be an increase of 6 or 7 degrees by the end of this century.

I know that people think of that as not much, but when you consider the average temperature of the planet was only four or five degrees lower during the ice ages, it demonstrates the massive change in the overall climate of the planet that small variations in the average actually make.

We're in trouble here, one way or the other. Even those who doubt the cause of the climate change, need to pay attention to the impacts it will have.

[Kinoulton]

Whether the (for us) inconvenient changes are part of the natural ups and downs of nature, or by our wrecking of the countryside, the issue needs to be torn from the hands of politicians.

The pathetic proposed measure of putting an extra £10 tax on flights out of Britain was typical of corrupt politicians wanting to scrape more money out of us in a way which would make no bl**dy difference to our basic needs at all.

As depicted on QI, every child and every dog creates a far greater carbon footprint than any Ferrari of private jet.

We need to stop posturing and start listening to scientists that don't have a political agenda.

The greatest saviour of Yorkshire for the last 2 winters has been 4x4 cars which are no different in terms of carbon emission to most family cars.

[Skin_and_Muscle]

We need to stop posturing and start listening to scientists that don't have a political agenda.

Not sure this is quiet right; science isn't the embodiment of cut off and ultimate truth.

I do, however, think that we need to start doing something, and I'd rather trust the scientists who say we should start thinking about sustainable energy, and investment in and production of jobs in these sorts of industries, than those sceptics who only seem to think about the bottom line and deal with the issue flippantly.