Interesting news re: Sarries salary cap

[Stupid]

Looking at the turnover and profit/loss it would seem to suggest that Sarries are spending only slightly more than Quins and Saints, and a lot less than Tigers...

Given that they will be spending money planning the redevelopment at Copthall, and that won't be coming cheap, plus losses on the Wembley games (assuming the above post is correct) it doesn't seem an outrageous amount to be spending. If anything it highlights that they are generating a very low turnover compared to other top teams.

[Cliffeclimber]

Much as I love a conspiracy theory, and catching out people who try to bend the rules, I do feel that some of us are taking this as an opportunity to turn Sarries into a panto villain.
Looking at it from the perspective of their Board, they must feel the need to make rapid progress on so many fronts at once and they are clearly focused on doing things imaginatively to get to their goals.
A bit like the bankers who thought they could make profits by lending money to people who clearly couldn't pay it back.
Hopefully, for the sake of an interesting Prem, they won't end up like the bankers - expecting others to bail them out so that they can continue their profligate ways.

[Tiglon]

It is a fact that PRL is investigating a supposed abuse of the salary cap (the s.c. is a Premiership agreement, not an RFU rule). This from an impeccable source, as is the fact that the club under scrutiny is not us!

Just because you say something is a fact, it doesn't make it so. It is a fact that giraffes usually grow to 40 metres tall, and this comes from an impeccable source - do you believe me?

As pointed out, they have around £12m less turnover than us, but only about £6m less profit. I fail to see how that proves they are cheating

So they are losing more money than some other clubs. Maybe they have a huge bill for coaching and support staff and consultants? Maybe they spend a fortune on expenses? Maybe someone's been embezzling?

I've yet to see any proof... you know, that thing you need before you find someone guilty?

[Tiglon]

P.S. please see the topic below for a suggestion that perhaps they do indeed have huge coaching costs.

http://forum.leicestertigers.com/viewto ... =1&t=34363

[me2]

If it turns out that a team is indeed breaking the cap I am sure that they will only be breaking it by the tens, or at most the low hundreds of thousands of pounds.

No club will be breaking the cap by millions of pounds as that would simply be far too obvious to argue away & obvious for EVERYONE in rugby to see!


Plus, lets be honest here, if a club were going to break the cap by millions of pounds, they'd be signing the Dan Carters & Bryan Habanas of the world & not some nearly-retired & over the hill Saffer after a quick pension or a mid-career Currie Cup player who wants to win a cap but knows he has no chance in his home country.


Seriously, come on!


Also, as an aside, the stat accounts of limited companies are audited annually & it would be impossible to hide away or miscode millions of pounds of salaries. If anyone IS breaking the cap they are almost certainly doing it through another company (such as a sponsor) who isn't under the direct inspection of PRL/RFU, and therefore the losses in SAIL/Saracens is meaningless (to this argument) anyway.

[fleabane]

Tiglon, if you read my post carefully, you will see that I specifically do not make any accusations against Sarries. This does not mean that they may not be the club under investigation.

(p.s. It is not a fact that giraffes are 40m tall - sorry!)

[Tiglon]

No, but you say it is a fact that someone is being investigated, whilst offering no proof.

I'm not saying anyone is definitely innocent, but the point is none of us can say for certain that anyone is guilty. Accusations have been thrown for years, and yet nothing has ever come of it.

How about a 40 ton hippo? Will you go for that one? It was mentally photographed by a very reliable source of mine

Anyway, it's nearly time to watch a giant rhino with dreadlocks smash a few Harlequins. Come on Tigers!

[fleabane]

Tiglon, if you know anything of scientific investigation, you will know that it is not possible to prove anything - all that can be done is disprove.

An investigation is underway. I do not need to prove it - neither can I do so. It is, however, a fact.

[youngtiger]

Tiglon, if you know anything of scientific investigation, you will know that it is not possible to prove anything - all that can be done is disprove.

An investigation is underway. I do not need to prove it - neither can I do so. It is, however, a fact.

We can't definitively prove anything, however any hypothesis needs evidence to be even considered! We don't take Newton's, Einstein's or Darwin's theories for granted without thorough evidence. Otherwise these would be baseless allegations also. How can you dare to talk about someone else not knowing about scientific investigation whilst making an argument like this?!

You may not have made specific allegations about Saracens cheating, but you most certainly have made allegations about them being under investigation. Now you can't continue to argue that this is in fact, well, fact, if you fail to produce evidence. I don't know your source, he could be impeccable, but for all I know he's a crack-smoking fool spouting drivel. (this is not an allegation by the way )

[DickyP]

.... How about a 40 ton hippo? ...

So you've met the girlfriend!

[Bill W (2)]

Tiglon, if you know anything of scientific investigation, you will know that it is not possible to prove anything - all that can be done is disprove.

An investigation is underway. I do not need to prove it - neither can I do so. It is, however, a fact.

It was Kurt Godel who proved (yes proved not failed to disprove) that not all things that are true are provable.

Thus it may well be true that Saffas are under investigation and that they are over the cap - but it may not be provable!

[Tiglon]

Tiglon, if you know anything of scientific investigation, you will know that it is not possible to prove anything - all that can be done is disprove.

An investigation is underway. I do not need to prove it - neither can I do so. It is, however, a fact.

Oh dear, you're really going with that argument?

If you know anything of logic, you will see the blatant self-contradictory nature of your argument.

Way off topic now - this is supposed to be a rugby forum, let's move on.

[hugh78]

A 'fact' that you cannot prove? Oxymoron.