Was Hartley up to old (and distasteful) trick? - now cited!!

[tig1]

I think its exactly the same length ban as i recall Danny Grewcock getting when he bit a players fingure playing for the Lions.

[tigerlilly]

How fed up must Northampton Saints be though, he committed this act playing for England, but his ban only lasts to inconvenience his domestic game, then miracle of miracles he will be free to play for England tour. The same has happened for many other England squad players in the past, that stinks no wonder we have such little faith in RFU, if they found him guilty he should at least lose one game for England, and I stand by that for past and future England players as well.

[Bill W (2)]

no wonder we have such little faith in RFU,

Ban was not imposed by the RFU but by the six nations.

[Soggypitch]

IMHO Hartley is unlucky to be banned for 5 league games and a probable semi final.

I've explained why on the "Sentences" thread.

[tigerlilly]

I stand corrected Bill W. But this sentence is still far more favourable to England for whom he was playing when he was deemed to have committed the offence and not his domestic league club, who are going to suffer more from the ban. I just feel there is a discrepancy here, that should be looked at and addressed. If a player is cited at international level surely if found guilty their sanction should include missing matches at that level, rather than just at domestic level. Hardly encourages management or coaching staff at international level to dissuade future bad behaviour if a player will still be available for them when they wish it!
I actually think in this case Mr Hartley was unlucky to even get a ban, as seems from what has been released so far, little or no video evidence available, and still query what Ferris' fingers was doing in vicinity of Dylans face/mouth.

[Grubbers Mate]

Hello again, Saints fan here. Tin hat on ready!. I think the concensus on both message boards is he is a bit unlucky. Ferris admits his finger was in his mouth. Last time that happened to me I bit the offending digit, the owner then hit me, I hit him back and we had a pint afterwards. How many notches does Ferris now have on his bedpost of players he has got cited? Hartley is a marmite player but has been pretty clean for a long time but this has not done him any favours.

Now Clark, that is another matter!! He gets what he gets from JB and deserves whatever that is. Hope your hooker recovers ok and maybe see you at Twickers in May if we can keep Exeter below us. Here's to an East Midlands final.

[Smurphswillgetya]

Hello again, Saints fan here. Tin hat on ready!. I think the concensus on both message boards is he is a bit unlucky. Ferris admits his finger was in his mouth. Last time that happened to me I bit the offending digit, the owner then hit me, I hit him back and we had a pint afterwards. How many notches does Ferris now have on his bedpost of players he has got cited? Hartley is a marmite player but has been pretty clean for a long time but this has not done him any favours.

Now Clark, that is another matter!! He gets what he gets from JB and deserves whatever that is. Hope your hooker recovers ok and maybe see you at Twickers in May if we can keep Exeter below us. Here's to an East Midlands final.

Mike no need for a tin hat. Sensible comments are always welcome.

[mol2]

Whilst biting is pathetic - you do wonder how the players finger ended up in Hartley's mouth?

Unless Hartley actively stuck the player's finger in his own mouth I think they cited the wrong player! Someone stuck their finger in my mouth I'd bite damn hard to make sure they removed it pronto!

[sapajo]

"Dylan Hartley considered for England captaincy before bite ban"

Interesting reading and I wonder just how true and indeed how this is at all relevant when considering a citing? Please see BBC link below

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17579531

[jgriffin]

Two observations:
1 I don't believe he should have been banned, or if he had to be, then Ferris should've also been in the dock for having his hand on Hartley's face
2 'Dimmon' should not be allowed anywhere near a captaincy for England.

[Bill W (2)]

Two observations:
1 I don't believe he should have been banned, or if he had to be, then Ferris should've also been in the dock for having his hand on Hartley's face
2 'Dimmon' should not be allowed anywhere near a captaincy for England.

Agree with your 2nd point totally.

On your first point under the current laws of the game retaliation is a more heinous offence than the offence that precipitated the retaliation although the initial offence can be used in mitigation of the punishment for retaliation.

On the field of play if you retaliate even after a red card offence the penalty will (should) be reversed. It is open to the citing officer to cite both the original offence and the retaliation. Should he cite only the retaliation it is not open to the disciplinary panel to punish the original offence merely to use it in mitigation of the retaliation.

[Tiglon]

As others have asked, why the hell were Ferris' fingers in Hartley's mouth?!

On the subject of his sentence, maybe there's a case for having bans that specifically apply to the competitions in which the offence is committed - like in certain other sports.

[Butchers Hook]

This is from a very reliable source.
Whilst out for dinner with his wife/girlfriend on Friday night Dylan Hartly was verbally abused by another customer in the pub. Some of the comments included were that he was 'evil' and that 'he should die'. I cannot believe that someone could be so angry at a man for something so obviously a reaction to provocation.
I'm glad to say he took the abuse with dignity although his partner was very upset.

[Stupid]

Sapajo - I thought that was very bad and obviously would be wrong. However, reading the actual findings of the panel it's not really what they meant (I don't think). The point that was being made was that he was reformed since the gouging incident, and that he was a candidate for the captaincy was evidence that those who knew him well considered that he is now a calmer, sensible and more controlled player - i.e. of good character. Once again the BBC who are supposed to be high quality neutral reporters are going for the controversial rather than the interesting and factual.

The whole thing seems a farce to me though. If they decided Ferris had his fingers in his mouth (and who other than the most one-eyed Irish fans thought otherwise?) then in my opinion there is no case to answer. How a little nip is not reasonable self defence when somebody is tugging on your mouth is beyond me. Oh, and Ferris didn't do it on purpose... yeah, right.

The only good thing to come from this is that any future ref will now know they should take any whinging from Ferris with a pinch (or even a whole cup full) of salt.

[mightymouse]

I am no fan of Hartly - I think he is a prat of the highest order and wasting what could be a reasonable talent.

However on the hand in mouth thing and Ferris bleating about ( I was watching this match last night as it happens) and they kept going on about it. and little Nigel got very pompous about it all.

Perhaps what Hartly should have done as soon as he heard all the bleating was go up to the ref and show him his mouth and say

"please sir can you have a word with their team because someone is gouging the face area - I have just nearly had my mouth ripped open by a dirty great filthy hand in it and it felt like someone was trying to rip my teeth out - it fact they feel damaged and may need remedial dental work - this is not the kind of thing I expect to happen to me when I come on a rugby field so can you have a word or i'll be talking to the police after the game."


It is similar to this whole question of holding off the ball and then bleating when you get thumped. the instigator of the action keeps getting away with it - it is not on - Years ago if someone did something to you - you or your team took retribution - equally you expected retribution (ie. lie on the ball and you expected a shoeing - i have the scars to prove it) now that is outlawed they have to get cuter on the initial action, whatever it is.