Alain Rolland - Warburton decision

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

There didn't seem to me to be any intent and therefore, a yellow would suffice. The law gives him the option to issue the red card but doesn't instruct him to do so.

Intent is irrelevant

Read the file at http://ht.ly/6Yd0Y - this is the edict sent out by the IRB where it says dropping a player with no regard for how they land is a red card offence - no mitigation

[Mr_Ben]

Like others I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who was annoyed by the ITV commentators and "analysts" comments.

The discussion at half time simply confirmed how inept the analysts were as they just showed a complete lack of understanding of the rules.

I'm going to contact ITV to complain about the whole thing, via their email address:

[email protected]

Thought I'd stick it on here in case anyone else fancies doing the same!

[Nuttytiger]

the halfpenny incident could of gone either way - the french guy came in from the side and the welsh guy held onto the ball on the ground so rolland was right by punishing the french guy for commiting the first offence. if the french guy had just come in from behind the back foot then it would have been fine. although personally the ball looked out to me!!

The guy penalised for coming in at the side was the second guy...after the first one had been prevented from picking the ball up which...I agree with you, was out! Hence penalty to France...

I'm perplexed as to what the size of the occasion has to do with the way it is reff'ed, apart from sticking to the laws of the game, which Rolland did. Surely, we wouldn't want a ref to ignore these simply because we want a show?

Clearly you missed my point....I was merely saying it was a big occassion and he seemed to take the decision very quickly and without any other views. I would have thought a 30 second chat with his TJ to confirm his own thoughts would have been merited?

[mol2]

Given that red cards get waved for minor fisticuffs a tackle like this which is at best reckless and could easily have broken the players neck (that's why it's banned) the ref made the correct call and didn't bottle it & give the soft option of a yellow and leave it to the citing officials.

Why consult the linesman when you are in a better position yourself?

Spoilt the game yes but don't blame the ref.

[Phil B]

In decades of rugby I never saw the French winning with this mix of cynicism and cold resolve, and sheer luck. This is called winning the English way and the Welsh flair was no match.

Love it!! So true.

[kingneptuneii]

There didn't seem to me to be any intent and therefore, a yellow would suffice. The law gives him the option to issue the red card but doesn't instruct him to do so.

so he's not malicious, just dangerously incompetent?

either way, the referee has a duty to ensure the saftey of the participants. Warbarton showed disregard for this safety, so has to go. i really cant see how here is any argument over this!

if any of you have been unfortunate to play in a game where one of these "tackles" takes place, or, heaven forbid, be SUBJECT to one, you'll know how gut wrenchingly frightening it is on impact!

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

if any of you have been unfortunate to play in a game where one of these "tackles" takes place, or, heaven forbid, be SUBJECT to one, you'll know how gut wrenchingly frightening it is on impact!

and gutwrenchingly painful!

I had the fortune whilst at Uni of a very large (25 st+) local farmer being my opponent in the front row - at one me he took my up, legs came up, and he drove down - the impact on my shoulders was bad but then his bulk coming through cracked two ribs and hospitalised me with a suspected ruptured liver, it doesn't have to be the head or neck, any downward force or drop can cause a potentially life threatening injury

[Tigers27]

Sitting in a welsh pub today, unfortunately Rolland had no choice, and what a pathetic headline for this thread. A great ref, made a bid decision and had no choice.

[loretta]

I'm perplexed as to what the size of the occasion has to do with the way it is reff'ed, apart from sticking to the laws of the game, which Rolland did. Surely, we wouldn't want a ref to ignore these simply because we want a show?

Clearly you missed my point....I was merely saying it was a big occassion and he seemed to take the decision very quickly and without any other views. I would have thought a 30 second chat with his TJ to confirm his own thoughts would have been merited?[/quote]


I did not miss your point, although I did go off sightly tangentially (partly due to my irritation at tv pundits who claimed that Rolland had killed the game). But I am glad that AR acted decisively, too many times we see refs cop out on these decisions and ignore the correct option or go to ask someone else what to do.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the shock at his decision comes from the lack of courage by refs in the past. It has become normal for refs to back off from the red, even when it is clearly merited.

[BJ.]

I'm going to contact ITV to complain about the whole thing, via their email address:

[email protected]

Thought I'd stick it on here in case anyone else fancies doing the same!

My complaint was sent at 11.33 yesterday. It read:

I wish to complain in the strongest possible terms about the standard of the commentary on this morning’s Rugby World Cup semi-final between Wales and France.

Throughout my 45+ years of watching sport on TV, I have never heard such a biased ranting from a commentator: I am referring to Nick Mullins. I can accept a one-eyed opinion from Michael Owen since he has played for and captained Wales but Mullins’ constant Welsh bias was disgusting. I found his sweeping statements about everyone supporting Wales unless they are French to be offensive and his constant referring back to the sending-off of Warburton was pathetic. It is painfully obvious Mullins is unaware of the briefing on this type of tackle given to the referees before the tournament started. For your information, Ed Morrison, the head of elite referee development at the RFU, said on Radio 5 a short while ago the decision to issue the red card was 100% correct.

It is evident Mullins knows little or nothing about the sport otherwise he would not keep saying teams have been awarded scrums when a penalty has been given and vice versa; he would not refer to the in-goal area as the dead ball area (how can a try be scored if the ball has to be touched down in the ‘dead ball area’?) and he would not keep saying a team will have possession after a line-out simply because it is their throw-in.

For the sake of the viewing public, get some commentators who know about the sport before the next World Cup comes round in 2015. The ones you currently have are nothing but a joke.

[Tigers27]

The whole of the commentary on ITV has been at best poor. The only time it is worth listening to is when the likes of Fitzpatrick and Lynagh are talking. The question is who would we prefer?? If I had the choice I would be listening to 5Live but they didn't even have the rights. A lose lose situation unfortunatly.

[Roadsweeper]

Amazed to see what people have written and I expect to receive a massive amount of abuse back for what I am going to write. Personally have no love for Wales, but they were robbed. The tackle was borderline the way the tackled player came down was as much about his owm momemtum. He wasn't icked up and dumped, as people seem to be implying. "It's not tiddlewinks..." Maybe a penalty, maybe a yellow , no way a red.

In the context of what we have seen in the rest of the tournament, then I would have expected a yellow. Rolland is rubbish and has no empathy for the game. He made feel sorry for Wales something I thought would never happen. If a Tigers player had been sent off in similar circumstances I am sure that the forum would be full by now.

As for the commentators watch/listen to Austin and Ben on ESPN if you want to listen to a lack of objectivity.

[TigerAlex]

Amazed to see what people have written and I expect to receive a massive amount of abuse back for what I am going to write. Personally have no love for Wales, but they were robbed. The tackle was borderline the way the tackled player came down was as much about his owm momemtum. He wasn't icked up and dumped, as people seem to be implying. "It's not tiddlewinks..." Maybe a penalty, maybe a yellow , no way a red.

In the context of what we have seen in the rest of the tournament, then I would have expected a yellow. Rolland is rubbish and has no empathy for the game. He made feel sorry for Wales something I thought would never happen. If a Tigers player had been sent off in similar circumstances I am sure that the forum would be full by now.

As for the commentators watch/listen to Austin and Ben on ESPN if you want to listen to a lack of objectivity.

Sorry, but what were you watching? That tackle was not marginal. Clerc's body was tipped beyond horizontal, his legs were lifted above his hips and he was dropped so that he landed on his shoulders first, legs still in the air. There was nothing marginal about that. Have you read the IRB directives (which were sent to all unions in 2007, 2009 and 2010 and which ALL the players were briefed on before the start of the World Cup)? Clerc was running forward, got picked up and dropped on his head the other way. That is actually against the player's own momentum (he's gone from going forwards to going backwards). Own momentum would have been if he'd fallen forward. I don't think Warburton meant to do it (well, it looked as if he was going for the big tackle, but I don't think he intended to put a player on his head), but again, according to the IRB directives, intent has nothing to do with it.

Context of the rest of the World Cup is also irrelevant. The players who were yellow carded were subsequently banned, showing that they should have been red carded. The referees who gave the yellow cards were also heavily criticised for not showing red cards to the players involved. Further, Rolland has done this before- Florian Fritz was shown red for a tip tackle (which as far as I could see was more marginal than Warburton's) on Tom Varndell in a recent Heineken Cup game. I thought professional teams did research into referee before they played nowadays?

Finally, one of the reasons that there should be no place for these kinds of tackles in rugby, and why the IRB is taking such a hard line on them is linked here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/s ... uilty.html
If you can't be bothered to read the whole thing, basically a teenage Canadian rugby player was convicted of manslaughter following a spear tackle on an opponent. And if you think 'well these are completely different- Warburton didn't drive the player into the ground', remind yourself of Thom Evans' brush with death during a perfectly legal bit of play. You only have to land awkwardly to hurt yourself really badly and imagine if there had been the standard pile-on (sorry, ruck formation) whilst Clerc had been in that kind of position.

Also was anyone who was watching today's game really annoyed by the constant references to this in the commentary? There were lots of 'don't talk to Wales about refereeing decisions' which were completely unnecessary.

[tig1]

The inconsistency is a problem.

Look at this clip of the Ireland vs England game in the six nations this year.
O brien picks up Haskell between the legs at a ruck and dumps him vertically on his neck and shoulders.

I dont think there was a penalty or any later citing. The referee is Bryce Lawrence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9SZPlx ... re=related

[TigerCam]

He dropped him - Red Card. AR was right. If more refs were to apply the laws of the game as they see them and not dither or blatantly ignore them due to the occasion then maybe just maybe we would get a game of rugby and not media sideshow.