New EPS and Saxons

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Darc Tiger
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New EPS and Saxons

Post by Darc Tiger » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:20 pm

ENGLAND SENIOR ELITE PLAYER SQUAD

FORWARDS (18)

Steffon Armitage (London Irish)
Steve Borthwick (Saracens)
George Chuter (Leicester Tigers)
Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Ben Kay (Leicester Tigers)
Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
Tim Payne (London Wasps)
Tom Rees (London Wasps
Simon Shaw (London Wasps)
Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks)
Phil Vickery (London Wasps)
Julian White (Leicester Tigers)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Joe Worsley (London Wasps)

BACKS (14)

Delon Armitage (London Irish)
Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks)
Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Riki Flutey (CA Brive)
Dan Hipkiss (Leicester Tigers)
Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Olly Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Mathew Tait (Sale Sharks)
Mike Tindall (Gloucester Rugby)
Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon)

ENGLAND SAXONS SQUAD

FORWARDS (17)

Richard Blaze (Leicester Tigers)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Nick Kennedy (London Irish)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Matthew Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
Tom Mercey (Saracens)
Lewis Moody (Leicester Tigers)
Luke Narraway (Gloucester Rugby)
David Paice (London Irish)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Will Skinner (Harlequins)
George Skivington (London Wasps)
Dan Ward-Smith (London Wasps)
Rob Webber (London Wasps)
Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)
Ben Woods (Leicester Tigers)

BACKS (15)

Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Danny Cipriani (London Wasps)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Shane Geraghty (Northampton Saints)
Topsy Ojo (London Irish)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Paul Sackey (London Wasps)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
David Strettle (Harlequins)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Sam Vesty (Leicester Tigers)
Dominic Waldouck (London Wasps)
Richard Wigglesworth (Sale Sharks)
Micky Young (Newcastle Falcons)

Cant really complain with the squads. Some deadwood removed. Some players are very unfortunate with both squads, but there are only 32 places after all.

Darc Tiger
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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by Darc Tiger » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:42 pm

Still on baby steps. He's got the Cockerill, 'evolution not revolution' mentality.

The encouraging signs is some of the deadwood has gone. As for White/Payne and Chuter. Neither of those positions are exactly bursting with ready talent... And Kay was in sparkling form this season.

I feel everyone in the squad deserves their place in some shape or form. It seems Johnson is changing things gradually and avoiding making massive changes and throwing out a team of young and inexperienced players.

He also seems to feel it harsh to drop any of our Lions.

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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by captain_insaino » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:51 pm

Vesty and flood both included in the two squads, so our 10 dilemma continues with the questionable situation of hougarrd.
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boon
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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by boon » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:14 pm

picks like blaze (mainly because he hasnt played in so very very very long) , vestey, chuter, white leave johnson open to claims of tigers bias.

his only defence will be winning pretty much everything.

& sorry to disappoint - but i think you'll find many non-tigers fans will feel the same.
if you are happy and you know it, you are unusual.

Darc Tiger
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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by Darc Tiger » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:21 pm

But Blaze could be one of the best lock options when fit. Vesty has been in great form and will cover 10/12 of the EPS if required. Kay has been in form. Chuter and White are in positions with a distinct lack of ready talented players.

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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by FlyingTiger » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:27 pm

With 14 Tigers in the 2 Squads I just hope Cockers has done his home work? If not the Tigers could be under a lot of pressure to make the play-off and getting out of the HC and EDF pools. It will certainly test the squad's character and guile!
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boon
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dont beleive the hype

Post by boon » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:32 pm

Darc Tiger wrote:But Blaze could be one of the best lock options when fit. Vesty has been in great form and will cover 10/12 of the EPS if required. Kay has been in form. Chuter and White are in positions with a distinct lack of ready talented players.
is he fit? will he be able to get back to the level he was suggesting he could play at before his injury?

we dont know. its all unproven and supposition. so awarding him a slot in the national squad is at best a gamble.
if you are happy and you know it, you are unusual.

Darc Tiger
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Re: dont beleive the hype

Post by Darc Tiger » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:40 pm

boon wrote:
Darc Tiger wrote:But Blaze could be one of the best lock options when fit. Vesty has been in great form and will cover 10/12 of the EPS if required. Kay has been in form. Chuter and White are in positions with a distinct lack of ready talented players.
is he fit? will he be able to get back to the level he was suggesting he could play at before his injury?

we dont know. its all unproven and supposition. so awarding him a slot in the national squad is at best a gamble.
Its only the Saxons. Its the proving ground after all. You sure your not mixing the Saxons and EPS players up?

g
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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by g » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:55 pm

So 14 players already lost to England before the season even starts. Then there are our Irish, Italian and Argentinian contingent who we will probably lose as well.



I hope the academy players are ready cos I think they will be playing sooner than they thought. I agree with BJ the likes of Chuter, White, and Kay are past there sell by dates. So for that matter is Worsley, Vickery, Sheridan,and Shaw.


I thought when Johnno was hired he would pick an England squad for the future. Seems to me he is doing what every other England coach has done in the past. Stick with old and past it dead wood in the hope that England win the next game. The next world cup is only 2 years away and still there is no planning for the future. Get the dead wood out and start playing the next generation of players.

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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:04 pm

I think its a good selection as it gives us options and allows us to change our tactics very quickly depending on the opposition. The likes of Kay, White and Chuter offer strength at the set piece while the likes of Shaw, Wilson and Mears gives us mobile options to attack in the loose. Its a nice balance in the forwads. Just look at the flankers, Worsley and Rees can bring an agressive defensive aspect perfect for smashing back the Welshies and denying them quick ball but at the same time we've got the dynamic Croft and Armitage who can take on the French in term of forward mobility and carrying potential.

Remember that the Saxons are only called away for a couple of games during the 6N so Vesty, Blaze, Wood etc will be available during the AIs and most of the 6N. Also with the EDF (or whatever its called now) being moved to 6N and AI weekends it shouldn't impact on the important competitions, the HEC and GP. In fact it might be good for the academy boys to get plenty of game time in the new EDF.

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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by fleabane » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:09 pm

As for favouritism comment, here is the breakdown:

EPS Saxons

Tigers: 6 forwards, 3 backs 4 forwards 1 back
Wasps: 5 forwards 3 forwards 4 backs
Bath: 2 forwards, 1 back 1 back
Irish: 1 forward, 2 backs 3 forwards 1 back
Quins: 1 forward. 2 backs 2 forwards 2 backs
Sale: 1 forward, 2 backs 1 back
Glaws: 2 backs 2 backs
Saints: 1 forward 1 forward 3 backs
Sarries: 1 forward 1 forward 1 back
Toulon: 1 back
Brive: 1 back
Worcs: 1 forward
Falcons: 1 back


Make your mind up!
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Pete
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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by Pete » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:13 pm

Chuter, White and Kay are an important part of by far the most successful club team in England. They deserve their places in the England set-up. However, with both Wilkinson and Flood susceptible to injury, I can see Vesty being promoted this coming season.

As for preparing for 2011, the best way is by choosing a team that can be successful this coming season, and then integrating a few talented younger players eg Flood as and when necessary.

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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by fleabane » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:18 pm

...and STILL the media headlines are all about Kelly's boy, Desperately unwanted Dan!
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TigerTimmy
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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by TigerTimmy » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:18 pm

Surely, rather than it being favouritism, Johnno is picking on form. As we reached two major finals (and won one) the players must have been doing something right and deserve their places.

Not sure how Wilko gets in, has he played ANY rugby in the last 12 months?
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Re: New EPS and Saxons

Post by SkippyTiger » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:21 pm

From the EPS squad you could pick a side something like:

15. Armitage
14. Monye
13. Hipkiss/Tait
12. Flutey
11. Banahan
10. Flood
9. Care
8. Crane
7. t'other Armitage
6. Croft
5. Deacon
4. Borthwick
3. Wilson
2. Hartley/Mears
1. Sheridan

Which isn't too bad but I'm going out of my way to pick the younger/newer members of the squad. You could equally get something like:

15. Morgan
14. Cueto
13. Hipkiss
12. Tindall
11. Tait
10. Wilkinson
9. Hodgson
8. Easter
7. Croft
6. Worseley
5. Kay
4. Shaw
3. Vickery
2. Chuter
1. Payne

The interesting thing I found trying to pick an 'exciting' and a 'boring' team was that it was really easy to pick an exciting 15-6 and really hard to pick 1-5. The boring team vice versa, which really shows up the lack of strength in depth we have in the tight 5 in the EPS squad. Payne, Vickery, Chuter, Shaw, Kay, Worseley, Easter etc are all capable of playing at this level to some degree but is it really wise to continue to pick them all for every EPS squad?

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