An attacking 5m scrum will be a devastating attacking position under the ELVs. If the TH gets a right shoulder then its even money a try with that extra space.4071 wrote:5m offside line at the scrum? Not sure it would make that much difference whether it's Corry, Crane or Newby at the back of the pack.
Corry at second row- Kay out of 22 and new captain
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dailywaffle
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Good day…
Living in the southern hemisphere I have seen a lot of games using the ELV laws.
And believe me when I tell you this, games are much faster with less lineouts and more scrums.
But the main thing is that teams use the quick tap and go a lot more. That results in the game being a lot less structured and more like sevens.
Living in the southern hemisphere I have seen a lot of games using the ELV laws.
And believe me when I tell you this, games are much faster with less lineouts and more scrums.
But the main thing is that teams use the quick tap and go a lot more. That results in the game being a lot less structured and more like sevens.
Totally agree, DW. Deacon was our best forward last season. He doesn't stand out as much as people like Croft, and he perhaps doesn't have the "fan appeal" of someone like Castro. But he does all the "ugly" work better than anyone else and must be one of the first names on the teamsheet. I don't really see much debate about a future captain - he is the only realistic option.dailywaffle wrote:I strongly disagree about Deacon. As, I guess, do the many players who voted Deacon 'players player of the season' last year.
"Living in the southern hemisphere I have seen a lot of games using the ELV laws.
And believe me when I tell you this, games are much faster with less lineouts and more scrums.
But the main thing is that teams use the quick tap and go a lot more. That results in the game being a lot less structured and more like sevens."
That may well be the case in the SH, but in the NH it will be a different set of laws being trialled. and the free-kick for ruck infringements law is not one of them. So we'll be seeing much fewer tap-and-go free-kicks, less headless-chicken running about, and more lineouts.
So, again, why would Corry be too slow for the back row under ELVs?
Which ELVs will make all the difference?
"An attacking 5m scrum will be a devastating attacking position under the ELVs. If the TH gets a right shoulder then its even money a try with that extra space."
There won't be much extra space. The defence will line up on their goalline - same as they do now. You can't be offside in your in-goal area.
A scrum 15m out may be better, as the space will be there.
But with all that extra space, why is pace so vital? All it means is that even the slowest No8s will be over the gainline with a pick and go from the back of the scrum, because the defence has to come 5m further to tackle them.
More important than pace is the ability to offload once you hit the first line of defence. Assuming the first line doesn't crumble.
If I were a defending FH, I'm not sure I'd be happy with a behemoth like Corry getting a 5m run-up before he hits me. I'd much rather be trying to bring down a quicker but smaller No 8 like Michael Owen.
And believe me when I tell you this, games are much faster with less lineouts and more scrums.
But the main thing is that teams use the quick tap and go a lot more. That results in the game being a lot less structured and more like sevens."
That may well be the case in the SH, but in the NH it will be a different set of laws being trialled. and the free-kick for ruck infringements law is not one of them. So we'll be seeing much fewer tap-and-go free-kicks, less headless-chicken running about, and more lineouts.
So, again, why would Corry be too slow for the back row under ELVs?
Which ELVs will make all the difference?
"An attacking 5m scrum will be a devastating attacking position under the ELVs. If the TH gets a right shoulder then its even money a try with that extra space."
There won't be much extra space. The defence will line up on their goalline - same as they do now. You can't be offside in your in-goal area.
A scrum 15m out may be better, as the space will be there.
But with all that extra space, why is pace so vital? All it means is that even the slowest No8s will be over the gainline with a pick and go from the back of the scrum, because the defence has to come 5m further to tackle them.
More important than pace is the ability to offload once you hit the first line of defence. Assuming the first line doesn't crumble.
If I were a defending FH, I'm not sure I'd be happy with a behemoth like Corry getting a 5m run-up before he hits me. I'd much rather be trying to bring down a quicker but smaller No 8 like Michael Owen.
4071:
Lineouts…. If the ELV laws are the same as in the SH there is a law that basically say:
When you, the kicker, receive the ball in the 22 from a pass that was from outside the 22 and you kick it directly into touch. Example: Lineout on your 10m line, scrumhalf gets the ball passes it back into the 22 and the kicker then kicks it out. The line out will be from where you kicked the ball. The same counts if you carry the ball into the 22 and then kick it out. Unless the ball is judged to be in the 22 and you are then able to kick it out and take the lineout where the ball went into touch.
This being the case teams playing under the ELV laws tend to kick it down field and that makes that there is less lineouts!
Lineouts…. If the ELV laws are the same as in the SH there is a law that basically say:
When you, the kicker, receive the ball in the 22 from a pass that was from outside the 22 and you kick it directly into touch. Example: Lineout on your 10m line, scrumhalf gets the ball passes it back into the 22 and the kicker then kicks it out. The line out will be from where you kicked the ball. The same counts if you carry the ball into the 22 and then kick it out. Unless the ball is judged to be in the 22 and you are then able to kick it out and take the lineout where the ball went into touch.
This being the case teams playing under the ELV laws tend to kick it down field and that makes that there is less lineouts!
4071
With the play under the ELV laws tending to be less structured, because of the less lineouts ass I tried to explain, and teams trying to attack the 5m defensive line at scrums. Teams tend to pick very mobile forwards as the game is less structured, and a prop these days have to travel to places on the park that they didn’t use to.
With the play under the ELV laws tending to be less structured, because of the less lineouts ass I tried to explain, and teams trying to attack the 5m defensive line at scrums. Teams tend to pick very mobile forwards as the game is less structured, and a prop these days have to travel to places on the park that they didn’t use to.
With the play under the ELV laws tending to be less structured, because of the less lineouts ass I tried to explain, and teams trying to attack the 5m defensive line at scrums. Teams tend to pick very mobile forwards as the game is less structured
Arguablty the 3N sides have been doing that for years anyway.
There will be fewer lineout as a result of the 22 law, but not much fewer. There aren't that many occasions in a game where the ball is passed back into the 22 for a clearance straight to touch anyway.
And teams have been playing the 'downtown' kicking tactic for a while in the NH. The aimless kick upfield, followed by a line of defenders pressing up together. You don't need pace there, so much as organisation.
the 5m at the scrum doesn't actually result in less structure.
If anything, because teams try to take advantage of the space by hitting the gainline as soon as possible, the ball is usually taken up fairly close to the scrum, in the 8/9/10 channel, rather than being slung out to the 12/13/14 channel.
The former guarantees the next breakdown will be over the gainline, whereas the latter gives the defence time to come up and negate the 5m.
This means that back rowers under the 5m law often have less ground to cover to reach the next breakdown.
Arguablty the 3N sides have been doing that for years anyway.
There will be fewer lineout as a result of the 22 law, but not much fewer. There aren't that many occasions in a game where the ball is passed back into the 22 for a clearance straight to touch anyway.
And teams have been playing the 'downtown' kicking tactic for a while in the NH. The aimless kick upfield, followed by a line of defenders pressing up together. You don't need pace there, so much as organisation.
the 5m at the scrum doesn't actually result in less structure.
If anything, because teams try to take advantage of the space by hitting the gainline as soon as possible, the ball is usually taken up fairly close to the scrum, in the 8/9/10 channel, rather than being slung out to the 12/13/14 channel.
The former guarantees the next breakdown will be over the gainline, whereas the latter gives the defence time to come up and negate the 5m.
This means that back rowers under the 5m law often have less ground to cover to reach the next breakdown.
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dailywaffle
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I was thinking defensive, as well as offensive pace. IIRC South Africa scored a try from a 5m scrum against NZ where they got a turn on in the scrum and the blindside opened up beautifully. SA had space, and the pace to exploit it. The pressure on the blindside flanker will be immense (especially if the ref enforces binding).4071 wrote: But with all that extra space, why is pace so vital? All it means is that even the slowest No8s will be over the gainline with a pick and go from the back of the scrum, because the defence has to come 5m further to tackle them.
More important than pace is the ability to offload once you hit the first line of defence. Assuming the first line doesn't crumble.
If I were a defending FH, I'm not sure I'd be happy with a behemoth like Corry getting a 5m run-up before he hits me. I'd much rather be trying to bring down a quicker but smaller No 8 like Michael Owen.
The pressure on the blindside flanker will be immense (especially if the ref enforces binding).
Ah, yes. You're right there.
But I think that this is a problem Corry has under the current laws. The flankers need to be quickly up and across, 5m law or not, and I though this was a failing of Corry's last season.
I never liked the Crane/Corry combo. I thought that one or the other at No8 is fine, but not playing together.
I don't think the ELVs that will be trialled next season wil make THAT much difference. Corry will be slightly too slow for the flank but OK at No 8.
Just he was under the old laws.
Ah, yes. You're right there.
But I think that this is a problem Corry has under the current laws. The flankers need to be quickly up and across, 5m law or not, and I though this was a failing of Corry's last season.
I never liked the Crane/Corry combo. I thought that one or the other at No8 is fine, but not playing together.
I don't think the ELVs that will be trialled next season wil make THAT much difference. Corry will be slightly too slow for the flank but OK at No 8.
Just he was under the old laws.
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dailywaffle
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Although last season's coaching staff would differ, I imagine most would agree with your Corry analysis, 4071. IMO Corry's role should be cover for 8 or lock next season, only playing 6 when both Croft and Newby are unavailable.
I think we probably differ a little over just how much more disadvantaged Corry (at blindside) is with the ELVs, but I think we both agree that we don't really want to see him play there.
I think we probably differ a little over just how much more disadvantaged Corry (at blindside) is with the ELVs, but I think we both agree that we don't really want to see him play there.
Daily, I fully understand what you are saying about Deacon and his ability but his award was 2006/7 wasn't it? In which case it supports my feeling that his form last year wasn't there......and I have to say I wasn't the only one thinking that......as John Wells seemed to pretty much agree with me.
K1....'Our best forward'.....I think there are a number of players who were well ahead of him ~ Croft, Wentzel & Herring to name but 3.
But as ever, it is just "MY" opinion, at the end of the day its down to coaches and I hope firstly: they are going to make the right decisions and secondly, both Deacons get back to the form of 2 seasons ago, as they were both fantastic players.
K1....'Our best forward'.....I think there are a number of players who were well ahead of him ~ Croft, Wentzel & Herring to name but 3.
But as ever, it is just "MY" opinion, at the end of the day its down to coaches and I hope firstly: they are going to make the right decisions and secondly, both Deacons get back to the form of 2 seasons ago, as they were both fantastic players.
To The Board ~ you have one season to prove you've got this decision right. More than you gave Marcelo
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dailywaffle
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