argies/pacific joining tri-nations

burly bill mclaren · Post by **burly bill mclaren** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:29 am

Theres an article (I got it on scrum V site) that states unofficially the argies and pacific islanders are joining the tri nations in 2008. Though this doesnt seem to have been verified by the governing bodies

can anyone fill the blanks here or links pls?

IF it happens it seems on paper to be great for the growth of the great game. BUt what will be the knock on effect? will this create a few extra super 14 teams from argentina and pacific islands? will this in turn mean fewer of their starts over here in a few yrs who will stay home to gest test and super 14 caps? will this affect european rugby etc?

Nells · Post by **Nells** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:07 am

I think they are talking about 2 Argentinian franchises and one Pacificic Island, but it is dependent on them getting their finances in order, which won't be easy. The IRB are however willing to give some money to help - £4,000,000 for Argentina was being talked about in the French Rugby press (which is not always the most accurate).

Many of the top Argentinian players would be likely to go back home if they could play professionally, even though their salaries would be likely to be much less than in europe. The French clubs would be very badly hit.

dailywaffle · Post by **dailywaffle** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:00 am

A proposal for Argentina to join the Tri-Nations was trailed in the rugby press a few weeks ago, as part of a restructured international season:

"It will also pave the way for another of the IRB's long-held aims - expanding SANZAR's Tri Nations tournament to include the Argentine Pumas and a Pacific Islanders composite team, possibly as early as 2008.

It is understood the Six Nations tournament would be played in June, allowing a Tri Nations tournament featuring Argentina and the Islanders to be held at the same time. Cross-hemisphere test matches would then be played in a window immediately afterwards in both Europe and in the southern hemisphere.

There are even suggestions the top two or top four placed teams in Six Nations and the Tri Nations might play each other annually immediately after the tournaments as part of the new window.

International squads would be full strength because no major club or franchise rugby would be played anywhere in the world during the new "test window"."

Rest of article:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4054097a10295.html

kornboy130 · Post by **kornboy130** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:00 am

Nells wrote:I think they are talking about 2 Argentinian franchises and one Pacificic Island, but it is dependent on them getting their finances in order, which won't be easy. The IRB are however willing to give some money to help - £4,000,000 for Argentina was being talked about in the French Rugby press (which is not always the most accurate).

Many of the top Argentinian players would be likely to go back home if they could play professionally, even though their salaries would be likely to be much less than in europe. The French clubs would be very badly hit.

dont you mean super 14 there nells?

Nells · Post by **Nells** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:06 am

Yes I think it is part of the deal, some arrangment for them to play in the super 14. Tri nations with most of the players in Europe would not work very well, unless they totally rethink the season.

Jeremy Anderson · Post by **Jeremy Anderson** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:43 am

Really interesting article - makes a lot of sense but I don't see anything in it that says Argies or Pacific Island teams will play in Super 14. In fact I think it unlikely they will drop any of the current participants and have not the time to expand the Super 14 into say a Super 16. Where does the Super 14 inclusion come from or is it just conjecture?

chipnchase · Post by **chipnchase** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:34 pm

When these claims were put forward to Bill Beumont at the way forward road show he denied them all and added that this would not be possible as the French clubs for instance would never go along with moving there finale to there season back. I think we're gonna be stuck in alot of in fighting for many years to come yet.

dailywaffle · Post by **dailywaffle** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:45 pm

chipnchase wrote:When these claims were put forward to Bill Beumont at the way forward road show he denied them all and added that this would not be possible as the French clubs for instance would never go along with moving there finale to there season back. I think we're gonna be stuck in alot of in fighting for many years to come yet.

He certainly said that any move of the 6N was highly unlikely, as the French would be opposed. The BBC probably wouldn't be too keen either. I got the impression that the timing of the AIs was less of an issue .... provided that any change did not affect revenue. Which is obviously a big issue.

IIRC he didn't comment specifically on the Tr-Nations.

You were obviously there as well, cnc. :oD
I was the 'Coalville rep' that asked about the season structure.

nwnreader · Post by **nwnreader** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:21 pm

I would love to see the Islands given a place in a SH tournament. Maybe then fewer islanders would move to NZ to play at the higher level, and thus the NZ side would cease to be over-subscribed with 'residential qualified' players. It is amazing the Islands produce such excellent players. If there were to be a way they could keep them then the future of SH rugby - especially for NZ - could be interesting.
As regards Argentina, I rate them higher than Italy so again would love to see them in a meaningful tournament

kornboy130 · Post by **kornboy130** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:16 pm

i believe there is talk of them joining the tri nations - but also talks about 6 nations - either way, argentina will end up within a major tournament in the next few years.
there is also talk of two franchises being placed into the super 14 - but the two deals are not linked and the franchises are further from being able to compete whereas the pumas already can.
It would make more sense for the pumas to play 6 nations rugby - seeing as most of their 1st choice players are stationed in France and steadily more and more are stationed in england and celtic league.

burly bill mclaren · Post by **burly bill mclaren** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:01 pm

I disagree argentina should be in the tri nations not 6 nations

for one the 6 nations is big enough, 7 games congests a european season further, it devalues the world cup too as the 7 nations is almost an annual world cup its just too big and you couldnt even call it a european championships any more

secondly where would argentina play their home games/ spain? France? its odd its bizarre. what would crowds be? in buenos aires theyd get 50,000, how many in france? less?

Thirdly argentina entering 6 nations does nothing for argentinian domestic rugby. IF they get in tri nations and super 14, then the week in week out monies would be huge for long term of argentinian rugby. It would raise the profilel of the game pull in a vast amount of tv viewers and tv money etc.
the game could explode in s america and who knows the likes of uruguay may finally improve.

I love the idea of growing the rugby family. not with gestures but at grass roots level. This makes 11 potential world teams. the knock on benefits could grow and grow. more teams to play, more greta players being produced, more rugby on the tv, the game spreading round the globe.

the pacific rim tournmanents could then be next in line for improvements. canada and the ever growing game in the USA. the churchill cup is clearly getting better all the time. who could surprise the big 11 next? russia? Portugal? Spain? Romania? Hungary? Brazil? nabia? Zimbabwe?

kornboy130 · Post by **kornboy130** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:46 am

burly bill mclaren wrote:Thirdly argentina entering 6 nations does nothing for argentinian domestic rugby. IF they get in tri nations and super 14,

thats just it - they need the ability to compete at a super 14 level - which many professional clubs in the uk, ireland and france just could not do. So the entry into tri nations would have to come first - which because of the NH seson structure they are part of would leave to almost no rest. The most promising idea ive seen come out from the IRB was a bi-annual 10 nations (tri nations + 6 nations + argentina) which would replace the tri nations and 6 nations in the year it is run - with AI's still being around but no summer tours - but to achieve this a new season structure which corrolates between north and south will be needed.