Well, there seems to be a fair bit of agreement amongst us at the moment.
The dissappointing thing is the same things were evident 12 months ago and unfortunately nothing seems to have changed.
In the end leadership and responsibility starts at the top and we still have a head coach who is 'temporary'. Until that issue is sorted I fear nothing will change - in a few weeks time we'll be going through the same story as last year - is he staying, is he going, rumours of new coaches, rumours that no one will come. More uncertainty, more discontinuity.
Tigers Vs Bath
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Against a strong winger, Tom Varndell isa lightweight. He has had all summer to practise his tackling and handling skills, but is still useless.
IMO he has a false sense of his own ability, and this is re-inforced by his constant selection to the first team.
Unless he is prepared to take a few hits on the way, he would do better to quit rugby and go in for sprinting. He leaves a wide corridor for the opposition, and often his team mates are tied up covering for him. Not good enough.
:x :x
IMO he has a false sense of his own ability, and this is re-inforced by his constant selection to the first team.
Unless he is prepared to take a few hits on the way, he would do better to quit rugby and go in for sprinting. He leaves a wide corridor for the opposition, and often his team mates are tied up covering for him. Not good enough.
:x :x
I have to agree tweentown, however i think it's time we all took stock and ask the question:
WHY IS IT THAT COACHES, WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN PART OF THE TIGERS SET UP, STAY AWAY?
I like Pat Howard, he's a nice bloke, but even though we came 2nd in the prem last season we still have this instability within the Coaching staff and team. Let's not barter this year, if Pat wants to go let him go - get Johnno in as DoR and let him search for a new coach but let this all come into force now and let the search begin.
With Johnno at the helm the Club and more importantly the Team will be far better off.
This is of course My Honest Opinion.
WHY IS IT THAT COACHES, WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN PART OF THE TIGERS SET UP, STAY AWAY?
I like Pat Howard, he's a nice bloke, but even though we came 2nd in the prem last season we still have this instability within the Coaching staff and team. Let's not barter this year, if Pat wants to go let him go - get Johnno in as DoR and let him search for a new coach but let this all come into force now and let the search begin.
With Johnno at the helm the Club and more importantly the Team will be far better off.
This is of course My Honest Opinion.
Life was like a box of chocolates - until I ate them! 
I really can't see Johnno coming on board in the very near future he is enjoying himself away from rugby and I reckon it'll be a good couple of seasons if at all before he comes back to Tigers. I think we need to start looking for Pats replacement now.
Pat may be a nice bloke but I think he needs to stop picking players who do not deserve their place in the team as I believe by picking them he is sending out the wrong signals to them. They may start thinking that they don't need to play well cos they know they will still be picked for the next game. Pat kick ass and stop being so nice.
Pat may be a nice bloke but I think he needs to stop picking players who do not deserve their place in the team as I believe by picking them he is sending out the wrong signals to them. They may start thinking that they don't need to play well cos they know they will still be picked for the next game. Pat kick ass and stop being so nice.
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banbury tiger
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It is funny how last week we were immense and this week we were terrible according to the people on here. I decided not to post last week since I felt it was all so positive that I would be shot down in flames with any comment about how poor our backs were for much of the game. But this week has just proved what I have been saying for ages when a team can front up to our forwards our backs are not good enough.
The problems are the same as last year until theses are sorted we will not be anymore than 2/3 best in the country and about 7-8th in Europe.
1. We have no on field leaders. Corry is a great player but not a leader. Kay etc do not offer little in the way of leadership support. To win you need several leaderrs on the pitch England had at least 4 in the pack during the World Cup let alone in the backs. we need leaders who react quickly to refs interpretations and so stop the persistent penalties. We ned leaders wwho can change the game plan, we need leaders with passion that inspires others to greater things. And most important of all we need leaders who others fear.
2. We do not have enough creative and quick players to win using skill when the forwards dont dominate. We have to have a 10 or 12 that is a skillful/ fast player. Murphy has to play 15 he is the only creater we have. Sorry Sam you dont let us down but you just aint in Murphys class at making breaks and creating space for Varndell. Varndell has not looked good yet cos he has had no ball or had ball that is going know where with a defender hanging off him. Murphy at 15 draws defenders in and passes out of contact to release Varndell in space.
3. Slow ball form the rucks we just dont hit them hard enough or quickly enough at pace in enough numbers to win the ball quickly. When Ellis plays this is compounded by his indicisive decision making and slow pass. Bemand has improved the team alot but he can not do it on his own.
4 The only real ball carrier we have who regularly makes lots of ground is Corry. I guess they are hoping Henry will solve this problem but for me he has never looked more than an impact sub he has great 20-30 mins but hten tends to fade when he plays form the start. The experiment with Deacon has not quite worked in attack cos he lacks a yard of pace.
5. Substitutions is an interesting one. In the big games we dont tend to change many but in the league we need to give the chance to the likes of Hipkiss to see if they can step up. My gut feeling is you dont change key players if they are playing well 8,9,10,12 and your leaders. The bench should be to change the plan so if its not working bring on players who offer differnt things and also it should be to develop young talent. I am all for giving the youngsters a chance but I am not sure we need too sub experienced players on like lloyd etc if we are doing well why change we know what he can do.
The problems are the same as last year until theses are sorted we will not be anymore than 2/3 best in the country and about 7-8th in Europe.
1. We have no on field leaders. Corry is a great player but not a leader. Kay etc do not offer little in the way of leadership support. To win you need several leaderrs on the pitch England had at least 4 in the pack during the World Cup let alone in the backs. we need leaders who react quickly to refs interpretations and so stop the persistent penalties. We ned leaders wwho can change the game plan, we need leaders with passion that inspires others to greater things. And most important of all we need leaders who others fear.
2. We do not have enough creative and quick players to win using skill when the forwards dont dominate. We have to have a 10 or 12 that is a skillful/ fast player. Murphy has to play 15 he is the only creater we have. Sorry Sam you dont let us down but you just aint in Murphys class at making breaks and creating space for Varndell. Varndell has not looked good yet cos he has had no ball or had ball that is going know where with a defender hanging off him. Murphy at 15 draws defenders in and passes out of contact to release Varndell in space.
3. Slow ball form the rucks we just dont hit them hard enough or quickly enough at pace in enough numbers to win the ball quickly. When Ellis plays this is compounded by his indicisive decision making and slow pass. Bemand has improved the team alot but he can not do it on his own.
4 The only real ball carrier we have who regularly makes lots of ground is Corry. I guess they are hoping Henry will solve this problem but for me he has never looked more than an impact sub he has great 20-30 mins but hten tends to fade when he plays form the start. The experiment with Deacon has not quite worked in attack cos he lacks a yard of pace.
5. Substitutions is an interesting one. In the big games we dont tend to change many but in the league we need to give the chance to the likes of Hipkiss to see if they can step up. My gut feeling is you dont change key players if they are playing well 8,9,10,12 and your leaders. The bench should be to change the plan so if its not working bring on players who offer differnt things and also it should be to develop young talent. I am all for giving the youngsters a chance but I am not sure we need too sub experienced players on like lloyd etc if we are doing well why change we know what he can do.
Tigers Vs Bath
Spot on Mat . I also didn't post last week for similar reasons . I think the world of Pat howard but he must get more ruthless - if players consistently don't perform in the big games or away games he must get rid of them . I don't think Johnno would tolerate failure . I will be shouting as much as anyone next saturday but just can't take lame excuses for poor performances.
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westwinds31
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Wasn't there so can only go on what has been said from those that did and the media comments - I can't help thinking that the players, after last weeks performance, perhaps took their eye off the ball and a few started to believe the hype about the fact that Leicester Tigers were going to be a force to be reckoned with. If thats the case, there are a few people who need to have a good look at themselves and get it right for Saturday.
I know that Johnno/Backy were exceptional leaders, but I find it hard to believe that Kay & Corry cannot motivate the team !!?? ...these are experienced guys who have won World Cups, been in the pressure cooker of the Lions and done it, seen it and bought the T-shirt and you're telling me that they don't know about motivation !!!.
I think that you are right about the discipline because the stats show that we give away a lot of penalties...but I think that we should except the real reason why we are not winning these games...the purple patch that we had in the late 90s/early 00/01 was because we had better players than everyone else....that is simply not the case now. On our day, we can beat anyone and we are great at home with the faithful as the extra man. But by the same token, teams have come up to our level and its a very even Premiership now, with any team able to beat the other. Yes, we have World class players in Geordan etc, but the fact is that we are 1 of 6 good teams in the league. This won't change just because we keep a team on the field not making so many changes !!
I know that Johnno/Backy were exceptional leaders, but I find it hard to believe that Kay & Corry cannot motivate the team !!?? ...these are experienced guys who have won World Cups, been in the pressure cooker of the Lions and done it, seen it and bought the T-shirt and you're telling me that they don't know about motivation !!!.
I think that you are right about the discipline because the stats show that we give away a lot of penalties...but I think that we should except the real reason why we are not winning these games...the purple patch that we had in the late 90s/early 00/01 was because we had better players than everyone else....that is simply not the case now. On our day, we can beat anyone and we are great at home with the faithful as the extra man. But by the same token, teams have come up to our level and its a very even Premiership now, with any team able to beat the other. Yes, we have World class players in Geordan etc, but the fact is that we are 1 of 6 good teams in the league. This won't change just because we keep a team on the field not making so many changes !!
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simon redshaw
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I agree too. Nothing more I can add on that.
Another thing I think is letting us down badly and something that I still think hasn't been solved is the lack of a specialist backs coach. We had that when we in theory won the Prem a couple of years ago. Since Pat became Head Coach, we haven't had a backs coach and the lack of support and coaching for the backs is letting us down badly.
I can't see why tigers don't sort this out. Pat can't do the two jobs properly and we desparately need a backs coach with some experience of the game somebody like Mike Catt. I know he is not available at the moment but I am using him as an example. We are going to have to go external on this. I would go wider and use a former All Black for instance. Somebody like John Kirwan maybe.
Another thing I think is letting us down badly and something that I still think hasn't been solved is the lack of a specialist backs coach. We had that when we in theory won the Prem a couple of years ago. Since Pat became Head Coach, we haven't had a backs coach and the lack of support and coaching for the backs is letting us down badly.
I can't see why tigers don't sort this out. Pat can't do the two jobs properly and we desparately need a backs coach with some experience of the game somebody like Mike Catt. I know he is not available at the moment but I am using him as an example. We are going to have to go external on this. I would go wider and use a former All Black for instance. Somebody like John Kirwan maybe.
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westwinds31
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Simon....agree...Kirwan would be superb, figure the odds of getting him !!.....one thing that I am confident about is that we will come out guns blazing on Saturday, hopefully hurt by the defeat at Bath. Gloucester have won their opening games and will be full of confidence, I just hope that the players get up for it and take it to them...its consistency that we need, and a win on Saturday is at least a start to show the fans that we mean business this year.
....plus, I have to stand with about 20 Gloucester fans every Sunday morning while I watch my lad training, so I will never live it down if we lose !!
....plus, I have to stand with about 20 Gloucester fans every Sunday morning while I watch my lad training, so I will never live it down if we lose !!
Here is my unbiased opinion of the game I watched yesterday. I say unbiased because I have no favorites and do not moan about certain players. No names but you know who you are.
Wecwere in the game until 15 minutes from the end. We had three players sin binned, they had one. Therefore we played with one player less than them for twenty minutes.
Near the end we had Henry playing at open side flanker (No Moody, Jennings or Abrahams, is he? Mainly due to the fact that an open side has the job of getting across the pitch pretty fast). Then Cornwell is moved to number eight.
We just couldnt get across the pitch quick enogh to cover which meant the defensive line went haywire. Then, basically it appeared as though we gave up.
There was no abrasiveness from the forwards, as there was against Sale. No one was as bad as some make out although I must say that Bath did play on young Varndells weaknesses and I think most sides will have spotted these already. I thought Sam had another good game, but agree with others postees that unfortunately for Sam, I think Geordan is more dangerous from the fullback position.
I do not think for one minute that the boys tried to lose and I expect them to bounce back next Saturday together with some stirring performances from one or two who havent played a premiership game yet.
Wecwere in the game until 15 minutes from the end. We had three players sin binned, they had one. Therefore we played with one player less than them for twenty minutes.
Near the end we had Henry playing at open side flanker (No Moody, Jennings or Abrahams, is he? Mainly due to the fact that an open side has the job of getting across the pitch pretty fast). Then Cornwell is moved to number eight.
We just couldnt get across the pitch quick enogh to cover which meant the defensive line went haywire. Then, basically it appeared as though we gave up.
There was no abrasiveness from the forwards, as there was against Sale. No one was as bad as some make out although I must say that Bath did play on young Varndells weaknesses and I think most sides will have spotted these already. I thought Sam had another good game, but agree with others postees that unfortunately for Sam, I think Geordan is more dangerous from the fullback position.
I do not think for one minute that the boys tried to lose and I expect them to bounce back next Saturday together with some stirring performances from one or two who havent played a premiership game yet.
Quincy - agree completely. With 15 mins to go we were winning and just about to blow an overlap in the corner to take us 8 points clear with the conversion to follow. This incident was doubly costly as Henry did his hamstring meaning a centre in the back row. From then on poor discipline cost us the game as much as anything else.
As for the comments on subs - I took the opportunity to speak to the players and Pat after the match - the FACTS are as follows
Moreno - obviously injured, therefore one sub used before the match started
Abrahams - injured hamstring, replaced
Henry T - injured hamstring, replaced
Bemand - knock to the shoulder, replaced
Kay - partial dislocation of shoulder, arm in sling, replaced at half time
Castro - replaced tactical
Gibson - strained calf carried over from last week - replaced
So, for the detractors of Pat and his substitutions, getting the facts straight he only made one tactical sub all afternoon - the rest were due to injuries backed up by chats with the players and coach after the match.
As for the comments on subs - I took the opportunity to speak to the players and Pat after the match - the FACTS are as follows
Moreno - obviously injured, therefore one sub used before the match started
Abrahams - injured hamstring, replaced
Henry T - injured hamstring, replaced
Bemand - knock to the shoulder, replaced
Kay - partial dislocation of shoulder, arm in sling, replaced at half time
Castro - replaced tactical
Gibson - strained calf carried over from last week - replaced
So, for the detractors of Pat and his substitutions, getting the facts straight he only made one tactical sub all afternoon - the rest were due to injuries backed up by chats with the players and coach after the match.
Less is more....
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simon redshaw
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Sorry for casting dispersion on Pat there. I and many others thought the other way round.
If we have that many injuries already, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the season!! We will be in the s.h.i.t. when it comes to the internationals.
And I thought Craig White was supposed to be helping with the fitness and conditioing of the players - doesn't seem to be having the desired effect does he!! :roll: :roll: :roll:
If we have that many injuries already, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the season!! We will be in the s.h.i.t. when it comes to the internationals.
And I thought Craig White was supposed to be helping with the fitness and conditioing of the players - doesn't seem to be having the desired effect does he!! :roll: :roll: :roll: