Exeter Chiefs

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Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:49 am

TigerBoy1880 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:45 am
Mark62 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:43 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:13 am


I think talking about the All Blacks is relevant. That’s why I mentioned it.
Pretty sure they’re called The All Blacks because of the colour of their strip and nothing else whatsoever
Yes probably but if there are people offended by the name, should there be a petition to get them to change it and if not, why not?
But who’s offended by the name or are just being deliberately contrary

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Tigerbeat » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:56 am

The important consideration is to what the background is to what is being used and as to whether there is any intended undertones in it to cause offence or upset people.
There are lots of names that are used and being used harmlessly.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:57 am

Tigerbeat wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:43 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:36 am
I’m sorry TB but you’re just being exaggeratory to sideline the real issue at hand.
JP14, I recognise that this is an issue and needs to be addressed. The exaggeration is asking how far do we have to go to make changes to address the issue..........not intended as offensive. As another user said, all lives matter and racism is not acceptable in todays society but that does not mean that everything in the past needs to be changed.
This isn’t about erasing History, and I’m not some defund-the-police Marxist who thinks no one should have an opinion. I too agree with Mark that’s Exeter’s decision was probably mostly financially based. The Indigenous Peoples didn’t suddenly become offended overnight, but the advent of social media and the BLM movement has made people brought the issue to light in sport both in America and in Britain. We can’t allow the people to excuse this kind of behaviour by labelling this as young people trying to be killjoys otherwise we will have to get rid of everything and live as robots!
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:58 am

Tigerbeat wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:56 am
The important consideration is to what the background is to what is being used and as to whether there is any intended undertones in it to cause offence or upset people.
There are lots of names that are used and being used harmlessly.
I agree but I don’t think the Chiefs branding is harmless...
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Traveller » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 am

Mark62 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:45 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:36 am
I’m sorry TB but you’re just being exaggeratory to sideline the real issue at hand.
Exaggeratory - I’ve never come across that before

Well done JP14 :smt026
I am deeply offended by your mangling of the word ‘exaggerate’ (from the Latin exaggeratus). ‘Exaggerated’ yes, ‘exaggerating’ fine. But ‘exaggeratory’ no, it is a bridge too far. A word that’s been part of the English cultural landscape for 500 years, so casually mangled. I find this deeply offensive. That said, and to paraphrase Christopher Hitchens ‘in protection of your right to free speech I would to my last breath defend your right to offend.’

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by BFG » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:23 am

VernonAtrium wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:01 pm
It is less Exeter's deliberate 'appropriation' of Native American culture and more about the influence of the United States / Disney / Hollywood on Britain generally, which has been in place since WW2, if not before.

Yes, social media. Let's have a discussion. You don't like those, though, do you? Because we might have to consider compromise.
Surely it's all of those things and more?
A major influence comes from North American sports franchises with professional rugby clubs in Britain looking for an identity that sells enough to afford being professional.
Saracens and Wasps are two brands that have managed to survive it so far.
London Welsh are an example of failure.
If LW had maybe changed their name to something like the Rebels and adopted Dick Turpin as their logo and had a mascot called Cheeky Chap larking about on matchday they may have attracted some more coin and possibly survived being professional.
Someone no doubt would've been offended, but no-one is going to take that seriously "Dick Turpin stole my inheritance" or " Cheeky Chap made me pinch teachers bottom" with demands that they change their branding.
In Chiefs case they have adopted the identity a much persecuted race of people to sell and some of their fans now copy Hollywood depictions of that race of people, it's wide open to serious criticisms.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:37 am

Traveller wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 am
Mark62 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:45 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:36 am
I’m sorry TB but you’re just being exaggeratory to sideline the real issue at hand.
Exaggeratory - I’ve never come across that before

Well done JP14 :smt026
I am deeply offended by your mangling of the word ‘exaggerate’ (from the Latin exaggeratus). ‘Exaggerated’ yes, ‘exaggerating’ fine. But ‘exaggeratory’ no, it is a bridge too far. A word that’s been part of the English cultural landscape for 500 years, so casually mangled. I find this deeply offensive. That said, and to paraphrase Christopher Hitchens ‘in protection of your right to free speech I would to my last breath defend your right to offend.’
Traveller I too was a little non plussed by this word, but when I typed it fully expecting autocorrect there was none :smt017

Must be one of those damn Americanisms, apologies to any American forum users

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:50 am

JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:57 am
Tigerbeat wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:43 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:36 am
I’m sorry TB but you’re just being exaggeratory to sideline the real issue at hand.
JP14, I recognise that this is an issue and needs to be addressed. The exaggeration is asking how far do we have to go to make changes to address the issue..........not intended as offensive. As another user said, all lives matter and racism is not acceptable in todays society but that does not mean that everything in the past needs to be changed.
This isn’t about erasing History, and I’m not some defund-the-police Marxist who thinks no one should have an opinion. I too agree with Mark that’s Exeter’s decision was probably mostly financially based. The Indigenous Peoples didn’t suddenly become offended overnight, but the advent of social media and the BLM movement has made people brought the issue to light in sport both in America and in Britain. We can’t allow the people to excuse this kind of behaviour by labelling this as young people trying to be killjoys otherwise we will have to get rid of everything and live as robots!
You seem to have missed my previous link from an American Indian Group, the Native American Guardians Association who do lay some of the blame for this furore at the foot of 'young people trying to be killjoys'.

http://naguardians.org/polling/

Sorry, this page, don't want to make it too difficult for you:

http://naguardians.org/pillars/

"Sadly, they have been able to indoctrinate college student groups to increase the size of their protests. "
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:13 pm

h's dad wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:50 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:57 am
Tigerbeat wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:43 am


JP14, I recognise that this is an issue and needs to be addressed. The exaggeration is asking how far do we have to go to make changes to address the issue..........not intended as offensive. As another user said, all lives matter and racism is not acceptable in todays society but that does not mean that everything in the past needs to be changed.
This isn’t about erasing History, and I’m not some defund-the-police Marxist who thinks no one should have an opinion. I too agree with Mark that’s Exeter’s decision was probably mostly financially based. The Indigenous Peoples didn’t suddenly become offended overnight, but the advent of social media and the BLM movement has made people brought the issue to light in sport both in America and in Britain. We can’t allow the people to excuse this kind of behaviour by labelling this as young people trying to be killjoys otherwise we will have to get rid of everything and live as robots!
You seem to have missed my previous link from an American Indian Group, the Native American Guardians Association who do lay some of the blame for this furore at the foot of 'young people trying to be killjoys'.

http://naguardians.org/polling/

Sorry, this page, don't want to make it too difficult for you:

http://naguardians.org/pillars/

"Sadly, they have been able to indoctrinate college student groups to increase the size of their protests. "
The tone is unnecessary of your above post but I have read the article and will do so again but it’s like Malcom Tucker says in the Thick of It (I paraphrase but): “Your expert says this I will find an expert who says the exact opposite”.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by jgriffin » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:17 pm

While you all argue pointlessly, what a marketing opportunity has been missed!
Far more used in the Exe area is the term "lover" or "my lover", as a familiarity, not a statement of fact.
Rebrand as Exeter Lovers - not only a tourist coup but infinite possibilities for marketing campaigns and images. :smt052
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by BFG » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:48 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:17 pm
While you all argue pointlessly, what a marketing opportunity has been missed!
Far more used in the Exe area is the term "lover" or "my lover", as a familiarity, not a statement of fact.
Rebrand as Exeter Lovers - not only a tourist coup but infinite possibilities for marketing campaigns and images. :smt052
Love it.
Mr Rowe could become the Hugh Hefner of the South West.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by h's dad » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:53 pm

JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:13 pm
h's dad wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:50 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:57 am


This isn’t about erasing History, and I’m not some defund-the-police Marxist who thinks no one should have an opinion. I too agree with Mark that’s Exeter’s decision was probably mostly financially based. The Indigenous Peoples didn’t suddenly become offended overnight, but the advent of social media and the BLM movement has made people brought the issue to light in sport both in America and in Britain. We can’t allow the people to excuse this kind of behaviour by labelling this as young people trying to be killjoys otherwise we will have to get rid of everything and live as robots!
You seem to have missed my previous link from an American Indian Group, the Native American Guardians Association who do lay some of the blame for this furore at the foot of 'young people trying to be killjoys'.

http://naguardians.org/polling/

Sorry, this page, don't want to make it too difficult for you:

http://naguardians.org/pillars/

"Sadly, they have been able to indoctrinate college student groups to increase the size of their protests. "
The tone is unnecessary of your above post but I have read the article and will do so again but it’s like Malcom Tucker says in the Thick of It (I paraphrase but): “Your expert says this I will find an expert who says the exact opposite”.
So you don't like my tone but you're using Malcolm Tucker to support your point of view. There are just so many points to make that not only am I lost for words but I simply don't have the time..
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by JP14 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:03 pm

Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni

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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by ourla » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:20 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:01 pm
ourla wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:54 pm
I understand that the use of the name "Chiefs" has some history to it - being the name given to the first team.

But when was the native Indian logo first used?
1998 I believe
Right so basically although the Chiefs name may have some historical hook to be hung on but the native Indian Headdress emblem certainly does not.

Might be worth asking what is the significance of the headdress. From Wiki:
War bonnets (also called warbonnets or headdresses) are feathered headgear traditionally worn by male leaders of the American Plains Indians Nations who have earned a place of great respect in their tribe. Originally they were sometimes worn into battle, but they are now primarily used for ceremonial occasions. In the Native American and First Nations communities that traditionally have these items of regalia, they are seen as items of great spiritual and political importance, only to be worn by those who have earned the right and honour through formal recognition by their people.
My bold.

I just don't think they have any legitimate reason to use the headdress as a symbol but worse than that they've taken something that actually as real meaning to those who wear it.

I just don't get it to be honest.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:51 pm

BFG wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:48 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:17 pm
While you all argue pointlessly, what a marketing opportunity has been missed!
Far more used in the Exe area is the term "lover" or "my lover", as a familiarity, not a statement of fact.
Rebrand as Exeter Lovers - not only a tourist coup but infinite possibilities for marketing campaigns and images. :smt052
Love it.
Mr Rowe could become the Hugh Hefner of the South West.
He’s already got the face for it.

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