RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

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Scott1
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Scott1 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:32 pm

Mr Churchill predicted the future of the left wing to a tee when he described what fascists would end up calling themselves.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by strawclearer » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:05 pm

Many generations ago, my family were forced to flee Spain because of the Spanish Inquisition.

I'm asking everyone to stop singing "Macarena" in solidarity with my family.

Actually - sod the family - just stop singing it anyway! :smt027
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by BFG » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:23 pm

My Grandad disliked Do The Conga, making the train longer went against union rules.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by jgriffin » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:39 pm

As a former cotton mill worker I wanted the Gracie Fields number "Sing As We Go" banned, glorifying what was an exploited existence. 😜
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by POSTIGER » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:09 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:32 pm
Mr Churchill predicted the future of the left wing to a tee when he described what fascists would end up calling themselves.
The quote you are referring to was wrongly attributed to Churchill. He never said that.
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:40 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:05 pm
Many generations ago, my family were forced to flee Spain because of the Spanish Inquisition.
Unexpectedly, I presume?
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by strawclearer » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:12 pm

WhitecapTiger wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:40 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:05 pm
Many generations ago, my family were forced to flee Spain because of the Spanish Inquisition.
Unexpectedly, I presume?
Well, of course! [Diabolical laughter!]
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:58 pm

This whole thread (minus a few posts Jgriffin :smt038 ) embodies the RFU position.

The issue isn't the singing of a song that was penned by a slave. Its that the song is sung for a sport that is run by majority middle/upper class white men and has a very poor record for inclusion. And yet the RFU wants to focus on the song not the underlying issue :smt017

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by BFG » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:09 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:58 pm
This whole thread (minus a few posts Jgriffin :smt038 ) embodies the RFU position.

The issue isn't the singing of a song that was penned by a slave. Its that the song is sung for a sport that is run by majority middle/upper class white men and has a very poor record for inclusion. And yet the RFU wants to focus on the song not the underlying issue :smt017
Do you mean like maybe someone wanting £25k to wear a kit for two hours that could be manufactured in a sweatshop by someone on maybe £5 a day?

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by chewbacca » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:40 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:58 pm
This whole thread (minus a few posts Jgriffin :smt038 ) embodies the RFU position.

The issue isn't the singing of a song that was penned by a slave. Its that the song is sung for a sport that is run by majority middle/upper class white men and has a very poor record for inclusion. And yet the RFU wants to focus on the song not the underlying issue :smt017
Lack of inclusion is the core reason why rugby is a minority sport as you identify the issue is more to do with class than colour.
I'm not cynical just experienced

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:51 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:09 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:58 pm
This whole thread (minus a few posts Jgriffin :smt038 ) embodies the RFU position.

The issue isn't the singing of a song that was penned by a slave. Its that the song is sung for a sport that is run by majority middle/upper class white men and has a very poor record for inclusion. And yet the RFU wants to focus on the song not the underlying issue :smt017
Do you mean like maybe someone wanting £25k to wear a kit for two hours that could be manufactured in a sweatshop by someone on maybe £5 a day?
That is definitely an issue that needs addressing but it shouldn't take away from the current issue either. Rugby is a long way from being perfect in any sense.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by mol2 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:37 am

So banning the singing of a hymn that dates back to the slave era is going to achieve what exactly?
It doesn't glorify slavery and it doesn't honour the slave owners so what is the problem.

Rugby union has tended to be much more racially inclusive than many sports and is the class perception more of reflection of the "chip on the shoulder brigde" who are ill informed about rugby union in the majority of England in current times?

Perhaps it was different in the amateur era and perhaps it was different in London (although I have no evidence for that in recent times). More likely it reflects that sport in many state schools has dwindled and rugby has suffered as the kids of today are more atracted to soccer and the wealth and status that comes with it in the eyes of youngsters. Rugby (of either code) is destined to remain a minority sport as kids of today seem less willing to get battered in the name of sport.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Scott1 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:45 am

Has there been any talk of a ban on the singing of Amazing Grace anywhere yet?

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Tiglon » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:03 am

We should definitely ban Amazing Grace. It makes light of blindness. Disgraceful.

Maybe we should just ban words in general, to be on the safe side?

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Cardiff Tig » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:37 am

mol2 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:37 am
Rugby union has tended to be much more racially inclusive than many sports and is the class perception more of reflection of the "chip on the shoulder brigde" who are ill informed about rugby union in the majority of England in current times?

Perhaps it was different in the amateur era and perhaps it was different in London (although I have no evidence for that in recent times). More likely it reflects that sport in many state schools has dwindled and rugby has suffered as the kids of today are more attracted to soccer and the wealth and status that comes with it in the eyes of youngsters. Rugby (of either code) is destined to remain a minority sport as kids of today seem less willing to get battered in the name of sport.
I don't think it's ill-informed. Look at the RFU, the club boards, the club coaching teams - the diversity just isn't there. And speak to players like Genge - they will tell you how they feel about inclusivity and rugby and how accessible it is as a sport. I'm not trying to claim this is all on rugby to solve, it's a complex web that runs throughout society - as you suggest, school funding will play a part, etc.

But the RFU has chosen to focus on a song rather than any number of more important issues that need addressing.

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